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Moved from Template talk:High-use

 – I hope moving this section here will generate more discussion and a more robust consensus for this idea from several weeks ago. A possible implementation of the proposed changes is still live in the sandbox, so interested editors can check the testcases for how it looks. —⁠andrybak (talk) 21:06, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

When updating the documentation of {{citation needed}}, I realized that Template:Documentation doesn't have a link to Help:Template, which answers the question of 'what is a "template"?'. Wikilinking the word "Template" in the header "Template documentation" at the very top seems too disruptive (see Special:Diff/1231335346 and Template:Documentation/testcases#Documentation/sandbox). Template:Documentation does link to Wikipedia:Template documentation and Help:Transclusion, but at the very bottom, which is often not visible below the fold.

Newbies not familiar with templates are more likely to end up seeing documentation pages of high use templates. What if Template:High use linked to Help:Template and Wikipedia:Lua, as implemented in Special:Diff/1231332038? However, the banner text of Template:High use is aimed at implementors/editors of templates, who ought to be familiar with templates. —⁠andrybak (talk) 19:52, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

One idea could be to add [help] alongside [view] [edit] [history] [purge] at the end. SWinxy (talk) 21:07, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think the help would be better placed directly after [history], but otherwise agree that might be a good solution. I'm thinking that a lot of mature template editors utilize [purge] on instinct as the last option in that list, and wouldn't want that replaced. VanIsaac, GHTV ^cont_WpWS 21:55, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

An implementation of SWinxy's idea would look something like this: main module and /config (I didn't update the corresponding code comments). With VanIsaac's suggestion: the purge link last in the list. Results are visible at Template:Documentation/testcases#Documentation/sandbox. —⁠andrybak (talk) 22:00, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I notice that test case with "This is in line documentation." doesn't have any links at all. A [help] link there would be helpful as well. —⁠andrybak (talk) 22:02, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've implemented a hacky way of adding a [help] link to inline documentation. "Hacky", because there's already an if for "inline" vs "/doc subpage", which makes the separation of concerns between functions makeStartBoxLinksData and renderStartBoxLinks awkward. —⁠andrybak (talk) 22:12, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think a form like this ends up being pretty noisy, it's a link that gets put in with a bunch of page-specific links (so, cognitive dissonance for even the casual user), and help as the specific text doesn't make it clear how it's relevant to the specific page. Izno (talk) 17:08, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Besides the criticism of the specifics, I think there's been some agreement that our "how to remove this link" additions in amboxes have not performed as expected. I don't think introing what a template is here is all that particularly helpful. Probably the modern way for someone to learn what one is is simply to google, which would probaby pop up Help:Template in short time. Izno (talk) 17:09, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with both arguments: the header is too crowded, those who want to know will find the help pages. Consider my proposal withdrawn. —⁠andrybak (talk) 19:15, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The documentation often includes calls to the template as a way to demonstrate the output. When testing a change to the template in the sandbox, the sandbox template includes the live documentation which then displays the sample output from the live template. It is possible to clone the documentation under the sandbox and alter the sandbox template to be explicit about including the sandbox version of the documentation. This however has the danger that when the sandbox template is published to live, the documentation fudge will not be undone and the live template will end up with documentation showing the sandbox template. Setting up a testcase sub-page is probably the "correct" way around all this, but is there another / simpler way? Could this template test for being in the sandbox and default to the sandbox version of the documentation? — GhostInTheMachine ^{talk to me} 19:50, 20 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You should almost never need a sandbox page of documentation. If the documentation changes between versions, just update it when you sync the templates. If you want to test changes to how the template looks, that is what /testcases is for. Gonnym (talk) 11:02, 21 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I assumed so. It is just that having a sandbox version of the documentation allowed for a simple "live" preview during editing — GhostInTheMachine ^{talk to me} 11:33, 21 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You can still do that with /testcases. At the bottom of a template in editing mode, you have "Preview page with this template", put the /testcases page there and you can view it with your changes without saving them. Gonnym (talk) 11:35, 21 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

True, and I guess that setting up /testcases is probably simpler than creating /sandbox/doc. Kinder on the next editor too ... — GhostInTheMachine ^{talk to me} 11:39, 21 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Is it possible to hide templates in the documentation, so that the user sees a ready-made template that will be specified in the documentation? For example: Template link from Kazakh Wiktionary. This has the template at the bottom, and I tried Help:Transclusion, but nothing worked. I tried <inlcudeonly> but there is a space that brings the text down. And other templates are attached to it.

The same problem: https://kk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Үлгі:Аралас_стильдегі_жауынгер Murat Karibay (talk) 17:23, 24 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Template documentation generally displays a sample ready-made template. See the documentation for Infobox person. Is that what you were looking for? — GhostInTheMachine ^{talk to me} 20:53, 24 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Actually no I wanted to hide the infobox or other templates from the documentation. For example, I specified a template with an example in the documentation, but at the end of the documentation is the template itself, I would like to hide it, but if you use <includeonly> then in articles appears a space that interferes. Example Murat Karibay (talk) 21:11, 28 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Murat Karibay, see Template:Human history for an example of not seeing the template below or above the documentation. Two notes:

1. On English Wikipedia, by convention, the code of the template goes first, then the documentation in a <noinclude>...</noinclude> block
2. It's important to have zero line breaks between <includeonly>...</includeonly> and <noinclude>...</noinclude>.

Here's the relevant bit of wikitext of Template:Human history for reference:

}}</includeonly><noinclude>
{{documentation|content=

The closing tag }} and </includeonly> are the last pieces of wikitext of the template itself. <noinclude> and {{documentation are the first lines of the documentation's wikitext. There is zero whitespace between the two. For more details, see Wikipedia:Template documentation § Put documentation in the template. —⁠andrybak (talk) 23:31, 28 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, that helped. But there are spaces down when viewing from a smartphone browser.

Murat Karibay (talk) 16:03, 30 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The redirect T:DOC has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2025 February 13 § T:DOC until a consensus is reached. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 13:14, 13 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]