Jews was one of the Social sciences and society good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones Date Process Result January 23, 2006 Good article nominee Listed July 6, 2008 Good article reassessment Kept October 6, 2008 Peer review Reviewed February 26, 2009 Good article reassessment Kept April 18, 2017 Good article reassessment Delisted Current status: Delisted good article

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Talk:Jews/infobox

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“Jews wrote the Bible, founded Christianity, and had an indirect but profound influence on Islam.”

Not only does this sentence contain somewhat misleading (or at least incomplete) phrasing for the first two parts, but the language itself seems to be leaning towards glazing. The preceding sentence is sufficient.

Lmk if I’m totally off base here, this is just my perception 65.112.8.31 (talk) 07:03, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Seems fine to me, literally true statements, no puffery detected. Andre🚐 07:32, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, perhaps I was mistaken. I still think it might be beneficial to reword it in a way that doesn’t oversimplify things as much. 65.112.8.31 (talk) 11:30, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How would you want to reword it? Andre🚐 22:50, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Jews authored the Bible, established Christianity, and influenced Islam." Moxy🍁 01:24, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Seems fine to me. Andre🚐 01:36, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The first two clauses seems mostly a substitution of longer words for shorter ones, with no apparent change in meaning or other improvement I can see. As far as the last clause, given that Islam is one of the three Abrahamic religions, and the many links mentioned in the lead paragraph of Judaism and Islam, the word profound seems an accurate description, and not puffery.

To the IP: a short, assertive statement in the WP:LEAD is not an oversimplification, if it is a summary of content in the body of the article that demonstrates that the lead statement is correct and lays out the most important points without all the details excected in the body. Not everything can be crammed into the lead; remember that WP:LEAD is just a summary of the most important points of the body, and that sentence seems fine for the lead. (edit conflict) Mathglot (talk) 01:50, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with Mathglot. Carlstak (talk) 02:10, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What's going on with the population source? I'm having trouble clicking the note next to it so I can only see the actual PDF of the source.

There would probably be 20 million Jews by this point but someone with a tiny mustache ruined that. I am concerned that this wild deviation from the official numbers will feed into Holocaust denialism.

Also, this is feeding into smart assistants like Siri/Spotlight Search. Ieditthethings (talk) 04:36, 18 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The source gives a bunch of numbers for different definitions of "Jew". See figure 3 on page 14 of the cited source, and also read footnote [a] in front of the reference and see if they help refine your question or concerns. Largoplazo (talk) 05:31, 18 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The footnote glitches at least on mobile web. That page is irrelevant and talks about how people can be distantly connected. The real established values are on page 17. Ieditthethings (talk) 02:16, 19 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

There's no option to edit our talk comments? Okay…

I see the difference now taking a closer look at the wiki page. However, the data being fed into other APIs is inaccurate and feeds into Holocaust denial. The 20m figure needs to be put elsewhere to prevent this. Ieditthethings (talk) 02:19, 19 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

User:Wolfdog, I'd like to discuss your change in the lead from identifying Jews as "nation" to saying they are "self-described as comprising a nation". For one thing, it's unnecessarily wordy. Even if I were to take your point, "self-described as a nation" would do the trick without the "comprising a" part.

More substantively, isn't a nation always a group of people who identify/describe themselves as such? I fail to see that you've made any distinction here. Rather, whatever it is you're trying to clarify is already implicit in the concept of a nation. Largoplazo (talk) 02:24, 23 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Just reverted it. Let's see if it lasts. Pyramids09 (talk) 03:20, 23 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's quite clear that that is not the usual meaning of the word nation in English in 2025. I'm happy to remove "comprising" if that was your main contention. My first edit was changing "nation" to "nation in the original sense of the word," but I actually worried THAT was too wordy. Does my concern make sense to you? The way nation is ordinarily used by English speakers today means nation-state and I'm trying to avoid that inevitable confusion for some readers. (There's the State of Israel of course, which has some but not total overlap.) Is there some other wording that could better get this distinction across? Thanks for discussing. Wolfdog (talk) 13:12, 23 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate your point about confusion with nation-state. Still, "self-described" comes across as "they call themselves that, but we know better". Looking to the Nation article for inspiration, I've come up with an alternative proposal, "... an ethnoreligious group and a people sharing a national identity ...". What do you all think? Largoplazo (talk) 13:35, 23 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]