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{{Talk:Christopher Lee/GA1}}
{{Talk:Christopher Lee/GA1}}

== Decades spanned ==

The article says, early on, "With a career spanning nearly seven decades ...."

If we're going to reference a "career span" in decades, perhaps we need a standard for this particular usage. I think it can be nicely descriptive, adding just enough exaggeration to make a valid point. (I got into this on the [[George Abbott]] talk page). Sir Christopher's career began in the 40s, went on through the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80, 90s, 2000s, and ended in the 2010s (I'll ignore posthumous appearances via old footage, as indeed we should.)

If we're counting "decades spanned" rather than years, the criterion ought to be a simple checkbox. "Forties? Check. Fifties? Check." And so on, through "2010s? Check." I'd say that his career spanned '''eight''' decades.

Counting entire decades and using fractions seems to violate the ten-year principle. (Of course, it all depends upon one's definition of a decade, but I'd argue for a construct wherein the third digit trips over on a rigorous interpretation of the Gregorian Calendar, i.e., 1971-1980 is two decades, but 1971-1979 is just one. It must be an integer, so no need for the word "nearly;" a partial decade is still a decade. 1971-1990 gets you into a third decade.) If you want to split it further, just state "spanned xx years" and be done with it.

If I should state that Mickey Rooney's career spanned ten decades, I expect some quizzical frowns, but it's worthwhile in expressing a remarkable long career. If we were debating two or three decades, nobody would care.

"Spanned" doesn't equate to "filled" or "encompassed." Use those words at your own risk, to play up or play down a certain number for dramatic purposes.[[User:WHPratt|WHPratt]] ([[User talk:WHPratt|talk]]) 23:41, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

Revision as of 23:41, 11 June 2022

Template:Vital article


Information concerning burial

I removed the bit which claims that Christopher Lee was cremated and his ashes scattered - it had been there for a long time with no source provided, and there doesn't seem to be any real source for the claim (IMDB and Find a Grave also claim this, but they themselves are not sources; anyone can edit them, and I couldn't find any real source for these claims). --82.181.143.171 (talk) 01:18, 1 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Possible photograph, 1940

When Lee was in Finland, he and other English volunteers were possibly photographed by the army on 1 March 1940. The photograph was recently noted but it awaits confirmation. See this article where Lee may be the fourth person from the left in the picture. Can those people be identified? --Mlang.Finn (talk) 13:53, 11 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Can’t confirm. I’d wait for a reliable positive identification. Idell (talk) 14:20, 11 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Military service section is all lies

Ban evasion by User:HarveyCarter.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Historian Gavin Mortimer said Lee never served in the SAS or the SOE. (86.149.119.175 (talk) 13:06, 2 June 2022 (UTC))[reply]

The service is reliably cited. Quote and cite your source and the evidence it brings to invalidate earlier claims? Chiswick Chap (talk) 13:13, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Guy Walters also confirmed Lee clearly lied about his war record: https://allthatsinteresting.com/christopher-lee-military-career (86.149.119.175 (talk) 18:33, 2 June 2022 (UTC))[reply]

That source merely alludes to further claims, basically saying that Lee was attached to those units but was not a member of them. The article already says the same. Hardly 'all lies'. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:09, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Christopher Lee/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Realmaxxver (talk · contribs) 21:17, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]


Reviewing comments soon. I mean, I can't not review this. Realmaxxver (talk) 21:17, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Early life

  • "Lee's maternal great-grandfather was an Italian political refugee, Jerome Carandini, the Marquis of Sarzano, whose wife, Lee's great-grandmother, was English-born opera singer Marie Carandini (née Burgess)." → "Lee's maternal great-grandfather, Jerome Carandini, the Marquis of Sarzano, was an Italian political refugee; his wife, Lee's great-grandmother, was English-born opera singer Marie Carandini (née Burgess)."
    • Fixed.
  • "It was arranged that he should stay on in Menton after his sister had returned home," → "It was arranged that he should stay in Menton after his sister had returned home,
    • Edited.

Military service

  • "As the North African Campaign progressed, the squadron "leapfrogged" between Egyptian airstrips, from RAF El Daba to Maaten Bagush and on to Mersa Matruh. They lent air support to the ground forces and bombed strategic targets." → "As the North African Campaign progressed, the squadron "leapfrogged" between Egyptian airstrips, from RAF El Daba to Maaten Bagush and on to Mersa Matruh; they lent air support to the ground forces and bombed strategic targets."
    • Done.
  • "After breaking through the Mareth Line, the squadron made their final base in Kairouan.[52] After the Axis surrender in North Africa in May 1943, the squadron moved to Zuwarah in Libya in preparation for the Allied invasion of Sicily.[53]" → "After breaking through the Mareth Line, the squadron made their final base in Kairouan;[52] and following the Axis surrender in North Africa in May 1943, the squadron moved to Zuwarah in Libya in preparation for the Allied invasion of Sicily.[53]"
    • Done.
  • "After the Allied invasion of Italy, the squadron was based in Foggia and Termoli during the winter of 1943. Lee was then seconded to the Army during an officer's swap scheme.[57]" → "After the Allied invasion of Italy, the squadron was based in Foggia and Termoli during the winter of 1943, where Lee was then seconded to the Army during an officer's swap scheme.[57]"
    • Done.
  • "He spent most of this time with the Gurkhas of the 8th Indian Infantry Division during the Battle of Monte Cassino.[58]" → "Most of his time during the Battle of Monte Cassino was spent with with the Gurkhas of the 8th Indian Infantry Division during the Battle of Monte Cassino.[58]"
    • Edited.

Overall

GA review
(see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose, spelling, and grammar):
    b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references):
    b (citations to reliable sources):
    c (OR):
    d (copyvio and plagiarism):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects):
    b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales):
    b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

Overall:
Pass/Fail:

· · ·

The Most Comfortable Chair: That's very kind of you. Let's see if we can get this finished! Chiswick Chap (talk) 18:34, 5 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

All right. I will complete the review; will be done in a day or two. — The Most Comfortable Chair 18:50, 5 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The Most Comfortable Chair, I came here because I saw the second opinion request; I see you've responded, but there's been no activity in two weeks. Are you still planning to review this? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 21:25, 18 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Mike Christie, The Most Comfortable Chair opened two GA reviews on 4 September, neither of which they have yet started, as well as saying they'd take on this one. As it has been three weeks with no action here, I think we can consider this available for you to take on, which would be most welcome—there is already plenty to do when they are able to resume GA reviewing, which I hope is soon. Thank you for checking. BlueMoonset (talk) 03:33, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
OK -- if they haven't started this by the time I am ready to pick up a new one, I'll take this on. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 08:12, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Restarting review

  • I'm dubious about the provenance of File:Christopher Lee 1944.jpg. The source link doesn't work; archived versions of it don't seem to belong to a structured website but to some kind of upload directory.
    Mmm, yes. How about we upload it with an NFUR? Would seem reasonable. I've removed it for now.
    Not sure we could justify it -- there are other pictures of him, after all. What were you thinking of to satisfy the requirement that it enhances reader understanding or that no free alternatives exist? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 18:38, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    That other images of him as a young (service)man will also be in copyright. Unless someone can find an official image of him doing his duty in uniform, which would be PD; but that seems unlikely.
    What would the "reader understanding" argument be? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 19:26, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • File:Oblong lee.jpg looks wrong. It looks like a film still, is claimed to be "own work", and the given licence tag is clearly wrong.
  • Removed.
  • Removed.
  • Earwig finds a backwards copy page but no other issues.
  • Noted.

Will look at sources next. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 17:04, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sources

  • What makes the following reliable sources?
    • talktalk.co.uk
      • Probably fine as a comms and entertainment company but removed anyway.
    • dreadcentral.com
      • Replaced.
    • behindthevoiceactors.com -- looks like it's a fan site
      • I believe it's a trade body; it always seems to be reliable.
        I don't think it's a trade body -- per this it's run by just three people. It's been discussed before, without definite conclusions. It sounds like the images with the green check marks have gone through some additional validation; are you only citing those records? I think this is one of those small groups of fanatics that create this sort of database site. I still think this is borderline but if you are only citing the green checked images I think it's non-controversial enouugh for GA. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:14, 26 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    • geekchocolate.co.uk -- the about page isn't reassuring, and apparently it's a wordpress site; it appears to be a blog. Even so per WP:ABOUTSELF it might work for Hardy, but we're using it for info about Lee.
    • cinematical.com -- says it's a blog
      • Removed.
    • joblo.com
      • Replaced.
    • greenmanreview.com
      • Replaced.
    • emol.org
      • This is The Entertainment Magazine. Long-established business.
        Seems to be mostly a one-man show, but given that it just says he sang in the closing credits I think it's OK, since I found evidence the proprietor ran multiple earlier small newspapers. But when I go to that link I don't see anything about Funny Man or Lee. Is the link correct? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:45, 26 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
        • Replaced.
    • mainlynorfolk.info
      • Replaced.
    • notableabodes.com
      • Removed.
  • FN 78 cites AllMovie; per WP:RS/PS it's regarded as marginally reliable for this sort of information -- can we replace the source? Same comment for FN 80.
  • FN 93 is the backwards copy page I mentioned above. Actually I can't completely prove it's a backwards copy, but the earliest archived version of this was from about 2012, and I found earlier versions of our article with that wording, so I think it must be. Anyway, this has to be removed.
    • (Hammer House of Horrors) - replaced with NYT.
  • FN 69 is "Lord of the Rings DVD, audio commentary" -- this doesn't have to be formatted well, but the reader has to know which DVD and some way to find the audio commentary, and the approximate offset of the relevant material.
  • FN 96 is to a YouTube video which is no longer available as the account is closed. The archive link works but I haven't yet managed to get the video to play, so I can't tell if this is a reliable source or not. It's not an official channel.
    • (Burnt Offerings) Replaced. It's certainly Lee and other cast members discussing the making of the film.
  • For FN 99 can you clarify whether this is a TV program, a film documentary, or even a book, in the citation?
    • (Prometheus Entertainment) - a TV documentary film. Updated.
  • Why does the article say "CinemaReview notes" for the quote? It seems to come from FN 138.
    • Removed.
  • FN 139 cites the IMDB, which is an unreliable source.
    • (Valhalla at IMDb) Removed.
  • Add the date to FN 158. You could also convert it to sfn as the other cites to the book are in that format, but that's optional for GA.
  • FN 167 is to a removed YouTube video.
    • Replaced.
  • FN 201 is to forbes.com, which per WP:RS/PS is unreliable.
    • Removed.

That's it for sources. Prose content is next; I'll wait till these are sorted out. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 19:44, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Content

  • Can we get a date or two for the events of his military service between December 1941 and January 1943? There's quite a sequence of events without a date there.
  • Edited. It was a period where he confessedly did very little. Not surprisingly, nobody has had very much to say about this time in his life.
  • "where Lee was then seconded to the Army during an officer's swap scheme": presumably should be "officers' swap"?
  • Fixed.
  • "Most of this time during the Battle of Monte Cassino": oddly phrased, as if that battle took his entire time with the army during the swap scheme.
  • Reworded.
  • Suggesting switching the order of the last two sentences in the "Military service" section -- as it stands I had to read the Telegraph interview to be sure it was Lee and not his stepfather who was attached to special forces.
  • Done.
  • I don't think we need the long lists of costars in the 2009 films.
  • Removed.
  • "With his operatic bass voice": not encyclopedic, though you might well be able to find a quote that says the same thing and use that.
  • Added.
  • "during T.S. Eliot’s period as a parishioner there": approximate dates? Even the decade would help.
  • Added. Eliot was a churchwarden there from 1940 to his death in 1965.
  • The closeness centrality feels like trivia, stated so baldly; I think if it's interesting enough to keep it needs to be explained inline.

That's all I can find. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 19:46, 26 September 2022 (UTC) All the above look good; I tweaked one thing. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:27, 26 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Spotchecks

  • FN 65 cites "supported William Hague and David Cameron": verified.
  • FNs 111 & 137 cite "Some thirty years after playing Francisco Scaramanga in The Man with the Golden Gun, Lee provided the voice of Scaramanga in the video game GoldenEye: Rogue Agent." Verified.
  • FN 122 cites "In 2004, Lee lamented that Hollywood scripts were mainly spin-offs, as people were afraid of taking financial risks, commenting that he was mostly being offered spin-offs of Lord of the Rings or Star Wars." Verified.

Everything looks good, so passing. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:27, 26 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Decades spanned

The article says, early on, "With a career spanning nearly seven decades ...."

If we're going to reference a "career span" in decades, perhaps we need a standard for this particular usage. I think it can be nicely descriptive, adding just enough exaggeration to make a valid point. (I got into this on the George Abbott talk page). Sir Christopher's career began in the 40s, went on through the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80, 90s, 2000s, and ended in the 2010s (I'll ignore posthumous appearances via old footage, as indeed we should.)

If we're counting "decades spanned" rather than years, the criterion ought to be a simple checkbox. "Forties? Check. Fifties? Check." And so on, through "2010s? Check." I'd say that his career spanned eight decades.

Counting entire decades and using fractions seems to violate the ten-year principle. (Of course, it all depends upon one's definition of a decade, but I'd argue for a construct wherein the third digit trips over on a rigorous interpretation of the Gregorian Calendar, i.e., 1971-1980 is two decades, but 1971-1979 is just one. It must be an integer, so no need for the word "nearly;" a partial decade is still a decade. 1971-1990 gets you into a third decade.) If you want to split it further, just state "spanned xx years" and be done with it.

If I should state that Mickey Rooney's career spanned ten decades, I expect some quizzical frowns, but it's worthwhile in expressing a remarkable long career. If we were debating two or three decades, nobody would care.

"Spanned" doesn't equate to "filled" or "encompassed." Use those words at your own risk, to play up or play down a certain number for dramatic purposes.WHPratt (talk) 23:41, 11 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Quelle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special%3ADiff%2F1092696948