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Literature

Alex Cross (character)

Alex Cross (character) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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To quote myself from this recent move discussion:

As for your point about the character, I think my initial proposal already covers that; the page was for the character, but that article was deleted via AfD. Three years isn't a ton of time for notability, especially for a character whose popularity peaked decades ago. I see that [this article] exists (and that you created it), but I'm not sure that would survive a second AfD. Most of the sources in that article are about the movies/TV series rather than the character himself, and I'm not sure the ones that are about the character are reliable (especially not Passionate in Marketing, nor the reference to another Wikipedia article which I know for a fact is against the rules).

The article's creator responded to that message saying they were "sure there are many tons of reliable source about the character him self online just need a lil bit of searching", but in the handful of weeks since that comment, the only additional sources they've added are also primarily about the franchise and not strictly the character. I think the character is generally underdiscussed in these sources, and that there is still not enough material for a standalone article. I would not oppose a merger of a smaller selection of sourced material to Alex Cross, and regardless I think this should redirect there. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 01:12, 26 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Keep the main character in a book series as prolific as the cross series is (32 books 3 movies and a tv show) seems notable enough although sourcing is an issue Theking49393 (talk) 03:34, 26 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Well if it can't overcome the sourcing issue, it shouldn't be kept. We can't just assume notability, and the franchise already has multiple other articles. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 04:01, 26 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: You referenced our previous discussion regarding the move of the other page. The article's creator responded to that message saying they were "sure there are many tons of reliable source about the character him self online just need a lil bit of searching", but in the handful of weeks since that comment, the only additional sources they've added are also primarily about the franchise and not strictly the character. I think the character is generally underdiscussed in these sources, and that there is still not enough material for a standalone article.
That being said, I originally intended to do more sourcing for the article but got sidetracked with other commitments and forgot. Nonetheless, the sources currently cited in the article already meet the GNG. They do not solely focus on the movies alone; rather, they also discuss the character alongside the films or series within the same sources. Afro 📢Talk! 06:33, 26 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Keep First, I want to clarify that I’m not a big fan of AfD discussions, and my vote to keep is not based on the fact that I created the article—I want to ensure a fair assessment. The character in question has been covered in over 40 media sources and is recognized as a fictional character for a reason.

I’m not sure what kind of sources are expected beyond those already provided, as they discuss the character while also covering the related films or novels in the same publication. To me, this is a reasonable approach. Not all fictional characters receive standalone coverage like DC and Marvel superheroes do, yet Alex Cross has been a well-established figure for over a decade. Dismissing his notability outright would overlook his long-standing presence in literature and media, for example, [1] [2] [3] they are similar characters with similar style of publications here o n wikipedia. Afro 📢Talk! 4:56, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

Redirect to Alex Cross (novel series). The article's main notability drawing statements are entirely unsourced, including the entire Legacy section, meaning this article contains heavy WP:OR. The sources provided in this discussion are from dubious sources (FromTheFourThrow seems to be a WP:WORDPRESS published WP:BLOG site, LikeADad.net seems dubious at best, and ForensicPsychologyOnline has no authors attached and seems to be an entirely promotional site). Any other sources in the article are WP:ROUTINE coverage, like announcements of the character's novel series being adapted to TV. There are also several sources that are all plot summary, which does not help with WP:NOTPLOT, including the PsychologyOnline source, which is entirely taking plot summary from a ROUTINE media announcement. I see no evidence of any actual coverage on this character that would constitute the WP:SIGCOV needed for an article, and all comments from those significantly involved with the article have been WP:SOURCESMUSTEXIST arguments without any actual meat to back it up. I would need some actual SIGCOV to be shown to be convinced of this subject meeting notability. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 13:02, 26 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: I'm doing a search since I could swear there have been articles focusing on the character, but I can't seem to find them. Much of the coverage (via Google search) focuses specifically on the film, books, and series, without covering the character in a way that could be seen as showing individual notability. I am finding some sourcing by looking up my old college's database, but since I'm no longer a current student I don't have any way of verifying that the coverage focuses on the character. It does seem promising though. I'm including some of the most promising in the article in a further reading section, but then there are ones like this that are a bit more vague. I am leaning towards it possibly being usable given that it's similar in scope to this. It also deals with black men in film, but the author focuses more on how the character is represented as opposed to purely or predominantly on the film.
Now if sourcing is found, this article will need to be pretty much gutted. It's written in an in-universe style, is largely unsourced, and some of the content seems to be written from a fan perspective. Something I'd recommend adding would be coverage of how people have responded to a white man writing a black character - Patterson has received both praise and scrutiny. That topic could also potentially show independent notability for the character as it does focus on how the character has been written. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 14:36, 26 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I found some other potentially usable sources here and here. As with before, these are all paywalled and as such I can't tell how usable they might be. I've also made a couple of tweaks to the page to remove some of the fan POV - I've left the background section alone since that would need some work and also is written to be an in-universe type description of the character, so there's a bit more leeway there. Still, it needs work for the fan POV.
I am leaning towards the character being independently notable and would normally volunteer to re-write the article, but given that the majority of available sourcing is paywalled it makes it very difficult for me to do without going to a public library, which I don't really have the time to do. I also do think there's some validity in the point that the character has been adapted to multiple forms of media (film, TV, comics), so a character page could help collect information on the differences between these adaptations. Although on that note, I think that this could be somewhat resolved by making a franchise page. Currently everything is on the novel series article, which kind of makes it wonky - there's an article on the film series, but I think a franchise page could help tie everything together a bit better. That's not the point of this AfD though, but something I wanted to put out there if anyone was interested. It'd be a big project and is a bit more than I can take on myself right now, admittedly. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 14:51, 26 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I couldn't stand the biography section and rewrote it to be at least somewhat more in keeping with Wikipedia's standards. I've removed some of the unsourced content such as his abilities - I mentioned that he was a boxer in the fictional character biography section. The others should be implied with the biography section. If this is kept an abilities section can be rebuilt with proper sourcing. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 19:18, 26 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I also removed the book list in favor of a prose section. It's redundant to the main article and takes up too much room. Plus it's kind of a given that he will either appear or be mentioned in every volume of his series. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 19:27, 26 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I've also done an overhaul of the article and removed the bulk of promotional prose. It's not a total rewrite but pretty close to it. The article still needs a lot of sourcing to back up various claims. I'm not really comfortable with some of the sourcing - the forensic psychology source has no info on who wrote anything or who runs it. I had to go to the TOU page to learn that it's maintained by XYZ Media. Looking for info on that doesn't bring up much, most of what I'm finding is web optimization and advertising - Google says it's linked to Wiley but I see no evidence of this. The page looks like it was primarily made to link to various colleges that are sponsoring the site to promote their schools. The profiles of various forensic psychologists (one of which is Alex Cross) seems to have been written as an aftersight. It's not super up front about it all being sponsored either, which is why I personally see it as unusable. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 20:05, 26 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@ReaderofthePack Nice work! It was somewhat challenging to find independent, reliable sources for this character, as much of the available information comes directly from the novel, film, and television adaptations. I appreciate the effort you put into researching further. Alex is one of the most notable fictional detective characters, so I was quite surprised to discover that he doesn’t have his own Wikipedia biography. Thank you for taking the time to dig deeper. Afro 📢Talk! 06:05, 27 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Swapnabhumi (Nepali novel)

Swapnabhumi (Nepali novel) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Not a notable book in Nepal. Sources are not reliable. As a book lover, I have never heard this name and its author. This is one of the Seventh articles Swapnabhumi (Nepali novel) , mirty diary, Sex desire and Taboo, Sex, Gender and Disability in Nepal, Mochan, Running from the Dreamland the editor has made in a row on different books written by Tulsi Acharya. This attempt of writing articles on such books which is hardly heard in Nepalese context raises suspicion on interest of editor Rahmatula786 (talk) 06:44, 25 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

A lot of resources and independent sources added as you suggested. Thank you for the guidance. Traillek (talk) 08:40, 25 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

White Supremacy Culture

AfDs for this article:
White Supremacy Culture (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This article appears to be promotional in nature and does not meet Wikipedia’s general notability guidelines. It lacks independent, reliable sources that demonstrate significant coverage outside of marketing materials. Bruteforce7700 (talk) 04:58, 25 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'm ambivalent about whether the article should be about Okun's paper, or about the broader concept (which is largely based on the paper). Regardless, the subject is notable: it has also received non-trivial coverage in a series of Reason articles [1] [2] [3] [4] and elsewhere [5] [6] [7] [8]. Astaire (talk) 11:09, 25 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Fails WP:SIGCOV. Most of the references cited either include only trivial mentions of the essay, focus on the author and not the essay, or are biased opinion pieces referencing the essay in passing as part of a broader attack on the notion of DEI. It seems the author might well meet WP:GNG, and a section on the essay could be appropriate there (this approach is suggested for books). But the essay on its own does not seem to warrant a stand-alone article. Mgruhn (talk) 21:04, 25 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Could you engage with the academic sources I provided above? All of them define/explain Okun's idea of "white supremacy culture" and use it as their primary framework of analysis:
    • This case study explores two projects undertaken at a liberal arts college: a working group and a credit-bearing course intended to reckon with racist, xenophobic or otherwise harmful materials in the college archive. Both projects were informed by the authors' engagement with Tema Okun's White Supremacy Culture [9]
    • This case study presents the development and implementation of a library-wide reading group to discuss Okun's (2021) White Supremacy Culture Characteristics through relational meetings [10]
    • A few weeks before the first Zoom meeting, Candace shared the Jones and Okun workbook (2001) on white supremacy culture with Érica and Shannyn. The three authors reviewed the workbook and considered whether this framework matched or explained what they experienced with the RY organization. [11]
    There are other examples as well, these are just the first three I saw that offered SIGCOV of the concept.
    I wouldn't support a rewrite about the author, as I'm not certain Okun is notable independently of the document. Astaire (talk) 22:10, 25 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I think it's actually unclear what this article is about, specifically.
    The article itself, and the third academic article you shared, describes the work in question as a "bulleted list" from a 2001 workbook.
    The author's website, cited by the article, describes an essay "originally written and published in 1999."
    The second academic source you shared appears to be about a 2021 followup work.
    If the author is not notable, perhaps it would make sense to merge this into Diversity, equity, and inclusion, with a broader discussion of the academic underpinnings of DEI? Or, as you suggested, a single article about the topic rather than this specific essay. In any case, per WP:PAGEDECIDE, I think this may be an instance where keeping discussion of all the related scholarly works in a single article "where the relationships between them can be better appreciated" is appropriate. Mgruhn (talk) 22:56, 25 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, I was going to make that point in my original comment. It seems like the essay was originally written in 1999 by Okun, then included in a 2001 workbook with a co-author Kenneth Jones, then revised by Okun in 2021. So these articles technically aren't referring to the same document, which is why I think an article about the concept is more workable. Astaire (talk) 23:08, 25 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Most of the references cited either include only trivial mentions of the essay, focus on the author and not the essay, or are biased opinion pieces referencing the essay in passing as part of a broader attack on the notion of DEI. This is not accurate. Just look at the Ryan Grim piece, "Tema Okun on Her Mythical Paper on White Supremacy". This is an in depth piece about the infamous paper, showing notability right there on the paper not the author. Other articles are about DEI done wrong, not an attack on DEI itself. And this is about the same document which has been updated in 2021. The paper itself is notable for how it has circulated and influenced progressive organizations. The concept could be included in the article on diversity training, but this wikipedia article is on the infamous paper. Kolya Butternut (talk) 03:01, 26 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Sex, Gender and Disability in Nepal

Sex, Gender and Disability in Nepal (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Not a notable book. Insufficient sources. Not a single neutral source. First reference is about some other Novel written by author. References 2,3 are not reputed media outlets in Nepal. Ref 4 cant be used as a supportive source. Rahmatula786 (talk) 05:10, 25 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Games of the Discworld

Games of the Discworld (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Sadly, this is just WP:OR/WP:FANCRUFT that fails WP:GNG. A poorly sourced (to primary sources or fansites) plot summary of minor elements from the fictional universe that is not notable (and if we consider it as a list, it also fails WP:NLIST). Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 15:01, 23 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

That would be fine for me, too. It's just that we don't have a List of Discworld games as of yet. Daranios (talk) 08:27, 26 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Rajlukshmee Debee Bhattacharya

Rajlukshmee Debee Bhattacharya (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Apart from the cited links, I couldn't find much info on the web supporting notability. Soumyapatra13 (talk) 12:01, 23 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Trackers Series

Trackers Series (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Article about a book series, not properly sourced as passing inclusion criteria. As always, books are not automatically notable enough for Wikipedia articles just because they exist, and have to show passage of WP:GNG on third-party coverage about them (book reviews, etc.) -- but this makes no real notability claim over and above "book that exists", and the only true "reference" here is a deadlinked primary source that wasn't support for notability even when it was live, while the other footnote is merely a clarifying note rather than a source.
I'm willing to withdraw this if somebody with more expertise in this genre of literature than I've got can actually find sufficient sourcing to salvage it, but nothing here is "inherently" notable enough to exempt it from having to have better referencing than this. Bearcat (talk) 17:48, 22 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

My instinct is to rework the article to be about the first book in the series. Astaire (talk) 19:17, 22 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Addendum: found two more brief reviews for the second book: [18] [19]
So both books appear to meet NBOOK #1, but only as independent entities. Astaire (talk) 19:23, 22 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: iirc, the issue of the notability of series with weakly-notable books has been discussed before in other literature-related AfDs. I think this fits the situation well; instead of having two weakly-notable books, we can just have an article about the series as a whole. See the Merging to broader subjects section of WP:NBOOK for a bit more on this. ARandomName123 (talk)Ping me! 21:16, 22 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I concur with this. With series, the thing is that in most cases there isn't going to be a ton of coverage for the series as a whole. It's usually a case of coverage for the individual books with some general mention of the series progressing. It's also super common for a series to have only 1-2 notable entries - not all of which are going to be the first book in the series. As far as series notability goes, if there is coverage for the individual entries then that establishes notability for the series. It's one part of a whole - if the hand model for the first Twilight were to ever pass NBIO and have an article, the article would be on the person - not her hands, even though her hands would be what she would be best known for.
    The general consensus has been that in cases like this, the best option is typically to have an article on the series. Individual entries on the books runs a huge risk of not being comprehensive or containing so much info on the series that it takes over the article. There's also a risk of it just not appearing cohesive, for the article to be about the third book and then to have a huge section about the series as a whole. I've found that creating a series page greatly decreases the chances of someone trying to create individual book pages. I think part of that is because when people read series they tend to think of it as a series, rather than the individual entries, if that makes sense. So their need for information will be sated by the series article rather than reading an article about the third book in the series. It also takes care of issues where the books are weakly notable (but still pass NBOOK by the skin of their teeth) - we can compile those into a single whole and have it be a bit more informative than a redirect to a bibliography section. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 14:11, 24 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. It's been established that the individual books technically pass NBOOK and are individually notable. However the coverage for them is very light as a whole. With this in mind, it makes much more sense to retain a series article than to split this into two extremely weak articles that would contain a lot of the same information as far as the interactive elements go. There's enough sourcing that a redirect to the author's article seems a little disingenuous - there's enough here to cobble together a small article - I could probably expand it a bit more with a release section that covered when and where the books were released, and by whom. (IE, if there are any foreign language translations and all of that.)
The coverage also gives me a very mild sense that there might be more, but I wouldn't bet the farm on that. It's a children's series, put out during a time where there were an exceptionally large amount of children's series - so the fact that this got any attention at all is kind of amazing. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 14:37, 24 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, I'd support this solution as well. Astaire (talk) 23:00, 24 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, both books are weakly notable, and per WP:PAGEDECIDE, better to cover them as one. PARAKANYAA (talk) 07:00, 25 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

High Above

High Above (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Non-notable. Article is a summary of a book about SES (company) which was written by(/for) SES. I cannot find sources to show that this book is notable, and I do not see that it meets any of the other criteria in WP:NBOOK. The only coverage I have found besides that from SES itself is in the form of two reviews (both already referenced in the article). One is a very short review from a personal blog [20], and the other is a TechRadar article [21] which appeared in the Wotsat column, to which the authors of the book were contributors ("Written by industry-leading journalists and Wotsat contributors [...]"). Pink Bee (talk) 14:57, 19 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Even Higher (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Beyond Frontiers (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Pink Bee (talk) 07:36, 20 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I can't find anything either - I'm debating between a redirect to the Astra page or a delete. SES and its Astra satellites seem to be pretty well known enough that Springer decided to hire people to write about them, however they're not so well known that I would anticipate someone really seeking this book out on Wikipedia. In other words, redirects are cheap, but if it's not something people would plausibly search for, then there's no point in having it. I'm leaning towards a delete for these. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 13:59, 20 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm not sure how many people would be searching for the books, but of the three I think Beyond Frontiers is more worthy of a redirect than the others because it appears to (have) be(en) an SES motto (at one point): Press release Design company portfolio SES video. They own a trademark for it. I don't really think anyone would be searching for that either, but it did come up more than any of the three books when I was looking for sources. Pink Bee (talk) 17:03, 20 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 00:43, 27 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. After a cursory search of coverage, it is pretty clear this book is extremely niche and has very, very little secondary coverage. There is one source that gives the book a mention [22] but that is essentially it. Any reviews of the book might help in establishing notability but otherwise essentially all of the article's sources are primary or local, which don't factor into its notability. It lacks the widespread and significant secondary coverage required for notability.  GuardianH  00:58, 27 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Toby the Tram Engine

Toby the Tram Engine (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Dubious stand-alone WP:GNG (my BEFORE also failed to find anything except a passing mention here and there). No reception or analysis, the only non-plot content is found the the "Prototype and backstory" but it seems to be cobbled from WP:SIGCOV-failing mentions, mostly by the show's creator; and it is padded by general history of the real world J70 tram engine (aka GER Class C53). Per ATD I recommend redirecting this to List of characters in The Railway Series; perhaps with a merge of few relevant sentences from the non-plot section. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 00:44, 17 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: notability and popularity of this article is attested by the large number of pages linking to it (see 'What links here'). Redirecting to List of characters in The Railway Series would necessarily obliterate virtually all of the content.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Mean as custard (talk • contribs) 06:52, February 19, 2025 (UTC)
I am afraid this argument, a variation of WP:GOOGLEHITS (but on Wikipedia) is not going to get much traction - our standards are much higher than 10-15 years ago where such arguments were considered valid. See WP:ITSPOPULAR. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 05:25, 19 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per above. This character is perhaps the most recognizable in the series after Thomas. Use of primary references, while raising eyebrows, doesn't necessitate deletion. I do agree with you that this page could use a cleanup though to remove some of the fluff. Kylemahar902 (talk) 22:40, 18 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 01:08, 24 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Literature proposed deletions

  1. ^ https://fromthefourthrow.com/2024/11/14/cross-review-a-fantastic-first-season-bringing-this-popular-literary-character-back-to-screens-for-fans-of-his-and-many-others/
  2. ^ https://likeadad.net/does-prime-videos-cross-get-alex-cross-right/#google_vignette
  3. ^ https://www.forensicpsychologyonline.com/alex-cross-forensic-psychologist/
Quelle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Deletion_sorting/Literature