The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep Pasilin, delete El Habib. In future please nominate separately, unless the two articles are the same or similar subject (ie same player). It becomes very difficult to make a proper assessment of the debate when it diverges between the two articles. SpinningSpark 13:33, 16 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Christian Pasilan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Contested PROD. Concern was that the article fails WP:NFOOTBALL and WP:GNG. PROD was contested by the article's creator without providing a reason. Sir Sputnik (talk) 16:35, 8 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I am also nominating the following article for the same reason. Sir Sputnik (talk) 19:49, 8 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Izzeldin El Habbib (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Sir Sputnik (talk) 16:36, 8 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - both fail WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL. GiantSnowman 21:02, 8 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Philippines-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:03, 9 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:03, 9 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:03, 9 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete both Keep Pasilan, Delete El Habbib - Unfortunately, the UFL isn't a purely-professional league yet (it's only semi-professional, although its fanbase is growing), and as such, both players fail El Habbib WP:NFOOTBALL. Although Pasilan is a member of the Azkals, to my knowledge, he's never played a game with them. No prejudice against recreation once: 1. the UFL becomes professional, or 2. Pasilan does play for the Azkals. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 00:36, 9 March 2013 (UTC) However, Pasilan appears to have played for the Azkals, even if only as a sub, so he passes. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 11:55, 13 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep Pasilan. I've just restored to the article a sourced paragraph added by the creator and removed without explanation by another editor, which shows Mr Pasilan actually has played full international football for the Philippines. National-football-teams.com concurs, and the match mentioned in detail in the cited source is listed by FIFA as a full international (search for 2008 matches). cheers, Struway2 (talk) 12:53, 12 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • 2008 AFC Challenge Cup qualification and 2008 AFF Suzuki Cup qualification are full internationals; however, I don't quite understand national-football-teams.com's stats. What are "exchanges"? What's a difference between that and a "match"? It says Pasilan played 0 matches, had 2 exchanges and scored no goals. –HTD 19:21, 12 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • It means he wasn't in the starting line-up for those 2 matches, but came on as a substitute later in each game. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 20:43, 12 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      • Shouldn't that mean that for every exchange there's a corresponding addition in "matches"? –HTD 04:58, 13 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
        • NFT isn't the most intuitive of sites, and doesn't devote a huge amount of effort to presentation (to put it politely). If I were designing such a table, I'd have columns for starts, subs, and total caps (= starts + subs), to make it absolutely explicit what I was talking about. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 08:27, 13 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
          • That's why I'm confused. Another player, Jason de Jong, had more exchanges than matches in 2008. That can't be possible. This is a textbook definition of an unreliable source; in fact, the cited blog post is more reliable here. We're at the point that we're even sure that he played or not. –HTD 15:43, 13 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
            • Sorry, it looks like I'm being even less clear than the site. The column headed "Matches" means "Matches started", the column headed "Exchanges" means "Matches played in as a substitute": add the two together and you get how many matches he has taken the field in. The people who run the site are not native English speakers. I'm not arguing for its reliability in a WP:RS sense, but I've never yet come across a player that it claimed played international football who hadn't.

              As to Mr Pasilan, the official match sheet confirms his appearance in the AFC Challenge Cup quali. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 16:53, 13 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

              • Well that resolves it. –HTD 17:18, 13 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
          • Comment - in order to be notable per WP:NFOOTBALL, does someone merely need to play an international match, not necessarily be in the starting lineup? Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 11:02, 13 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
            • Yes, that is enough. As WP:NFOOTBALL says "Players, managers and referees who have represented their country in any FIFA sanctioned senior international match (including the Olympics) are notable as they have achieved the status of participating at the highest level of football" (my italics). A substitute does indeed represent their country when they play in an international match, regardless of how many minutes they play. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 11:35, 13 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Pasilan, Delete El Habbib - Pasilan has been capped at international level, which make him pass WP:NFOOTY. El Habbib has not played in a fully pro league nor been capped for his country. El Habbib also fails WP:GNG due to lack of coverage in reliable sources. Mentoz86 (talk) 09:21, 14 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.