The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was keep and tag historical the WP: space pages, delete the mainspace redirects, and keep the barnstar (move at editors' discretion). Pegasus «C¦T» 12:49, 20 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm nominating the following pages for deletion:

While they don't all fall under the direct purview of MfD, I thought it best to keep discussion centralized. For the most part, all of the above are in no way needed in any way since WikiProject Warcraft elected to become a task force of WP:VG. Further, the majority either a) do not have a direct translation to an equivalent of WP:VG's, b) do not have an equivalent of WP:VG, but I do not see why we should have one in all cases, c) are redirects which would probably end up speedy deleted per redirect cleanup (or otherwise serve as unneeded redirects, and from mainspace into project space), or d) which have functions duplicated largely by the main page of WP:VG/WC and which I do not really see a reason for them to redirect.

The only one I can possibly see keeping is the barnstar template, but even that I think could be scratched and any given user awarded the Video game barnstar instead. --Izno (talk) 00:59, 13 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Comments - The participants page has an extensive edit history going back to 2006. Should probably keep that, as it is part of the history of Wikipedia. There is no reason why it can't just be marked as historical with a link to the participants page at the main project, in case anyone ends up at the old page by accident. The other pages I'm less worried about. In general, though, I think many MfD nominations could be dealt with by blanking or inactivation of pages (blanking with a notice placed on the page). No real need to delete, which should only be for stuff that is inappropriate to keep. Archiving should be encouraged, instead of deletion. See Wikipedia:WikiProject Silmarillion for something similar. Carcharoth (talk) 01:43, 13 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  More or less I'm acting as a member of WP:VG/IPC in an attempt to clean up the project space, since they aren't historical, but rather, abandoned (WP:VG/WC doesn't need them). As for the edit history on /Participation, I would suspect (though you are welcome to prove me wrong) that the large majority of the edits are simply "hi, this is my name", rather than substantive history, as might be found on a talk page that had been archived (see WP:VG/IPC#Completed and the MfDs surrounding them, particularly that on WP:MMO). In effect, we're just cleaning up our WP:VG's area of the space, and these are just the forgotten leftovers from when WP:WP Warcraft became a task force of WP:VG. --Izno (talk) 03:16, 13 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  If you don't need them, why are you asking for them to be deleted? I realise some pages have been archived in the past and some deleted, but this is a wiki. It is possible to keep more than you think you need to keep and turn really useless pages into redirects, rather than deleting, so that the contribution history is still visible. When pages get deleted, the contributions to that page move into someone's deleted contributions, rather than remaining visible in their public contributions. This is the main reason why I favour archiving over deletion (and the argument some people put forward that deleted page revisions are still visible to some doesn't wash - deletion is not archiving). I'd even say that undeletion and proper archiving of some of those previously deleted pages could be done. In the main it is the main thrust of MfD that I am trying (rather unsuccessfully) to turn back. The tendency to delete rather than archive, though I did note that the clean-up process you pointed me at did archive some of the pages. Deletion should really, in my opinion, be used for harmful, inappropriate or wasteful mainspace material, not for cleaning up abandoned odds-and-ends in project space. Those should be archived at various levels, and in all likelihood never touched again, but will still be there as a record of what happened. Carcharoth (talk) 09:51, 13 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete and move different pages: I'd say some of these could be delete and others kept.

• I don't see the two redirects being used any more and believe they can safely be deleted.
• The Index and Community pages look like they never got off the ground. Their current state and small edit histories (only ten and five respectively) make me think they can also be deleted without worry.
• The two awards should probably be kept. I think they can be moved from their current location to subpages under the Warcraft task force.
• The Particpants page is a bit of a toss up. It serves no real purpose, but has a sizable edit history. I think the most prudent action would be to move it to a subpage of the Warcraft task force and tag as historical.

My two cents. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 14:20, 13 October 2008 (UTC))[reply]

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of video game related deletions. Guyinblack25 ^talk 15:34, 13 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Notes — It might be necessary (for sake of process and to draw better discussion) to place the redirects at WP:RFD; we could link them from here if need be. The same thing with template for deletion (WP:TFD). Anyways, here are my recommendations:
  • Wikipedia:WikiProject Warcraft/Community — Tag as historical, might be helpful to keep around for historical reference.
  • Template:Barnstar Warcraft and Wikipedia:WikiProject Warcraft/Award userbox — Keep as some might have them.
  • Wikipedia:WikiProject Warcraft/Index, WPW Style (redirect), WPW Index (redirect), and Wikipedia:WikiProject Warcraft/Participants — Delete as the WPW pages have no content; the redirect naturally follow for deletion as they redirect to the would-be-deleted pages. MuZemike (talk) 16:24, 13 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Change to Weak delete on Wikipedia:WikiProject Warcraft/Participants, taking in consideration the long edit history. I would not oppose to it being kept. And just to clarify with WPW Style, it was created as a redirect to Wikipedia:WikiProject Warcraft/Manual of style, which is now redirected to the WPVG article guidelines page, with the ensuing double redirect appropriately fixed. I change to keep for that redirect, as I wasn't aware it was being redirect to a WPVG page. MuZemike (talk) 16:33, 13 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    No one has the barnstar linked, and the only person with the userbox is EVula, which seems a little strange, since EVula isn't on the participants list. I don't think it would be harmful to delete it when it is only used in one place. --Izno (talk) 19:15, 13 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    Further, the redirect you said to keep isn't in the Wikipedia space, but in the main space, which is a no-no so far as I'm concerned. If it were a simple WP:W Style, I wouldn't be concerned. --Izno (talk) 19:17, 13 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    • Ah, I get it. I was not especially paying attention that it was in the mainspace. In that case, I flip-flop back to delete for the redirect; remain the same for everything else. MuZemike (talk) 16:16, 15 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    The barnstar may not be linked anywhere, but it has been used in the past via substitution. Plus moving it will allow it to be used in the future.

    Regarding the redirects, Izno brings up a good point. They should not be in the main space. Since they are in the wrong place, not linked in any past discussions, and will probably not be, I'd say deletion is the best course for them. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 19:43, 13 October 2008 (UTC))[reply]

• keep for historical purposes. Many edits and no harm in keeping the record open. Transparency is good. JoshuaZ (talk) 18:03, 13 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep and Move to be subpages of Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Warcraft and let the task force decide what to do with the pages. I believe (I may be wrong) that the task force can set up its own formal deletion discussion on a talk page and have the pages deleted under {{db-house}} if there is 100% consensus of the task force. -- Suntag ☼ 18:31, 13 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Historical, etc. -- Ned Scott 03:28, 15 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Tag as historical. This is wikipedia history. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 12:13, 17 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete the barnstar as virtually unused. Delete the /index and /community pages for virtually no use or history. Keep the rest for historical purposes, and let the task force decide if any of them need moving or redirecting. Randomran (talk) 15:27, 17 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  The irony of course being that I'm also in the Warcraft task force. Figures. --Izno (talk) 01:26, 18 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• At the very least Delete WPW Style and WPW Index as cross-namespace redirects. Nifboy (talk) 00:00, 20 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.