The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by TLSuda (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 03:02, 28 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

File:Red&White3.JPG (delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by E344alex ( | contribs | uploads | upload log).

2006 edition of the paper will still be copyrighted. IF needed a free image from one of the public domain issues can be used. Peripitus (Talk) 10:57, 20 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by TLSuda (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 03:02, 28 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

File:Mini-ireland.png (delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Seabhcan ( | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Unused. No foreseeable use. Stefan2 (talk) 13:08, 20 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by TLSuda (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 03:02, 28 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

File:MBLAQ BLAQ% Ver.jpg (delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by SarahLovesGenting ( | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Per WP:NFCC#8. Stefan2 (talk) 14:30, 20 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by TLSuda (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 03:02, 28 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

File:Runaway person.jpg (delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Naskgetty ( | contribs | uploads | upload log).

File is unused, and lacks context toe enable further use. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 14:42, 20 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by TLSuda (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 03:02, 28 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

File:Joise vincent.jpeg (delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Joisevincentkunnumpara ( | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Unused, possibly personal file. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 14:44, 20 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: Consensus is that there is a lack information that prove that these photos are in the public domain. As such, the consensus shows Wikipedia should treat such files as non-free. In the cases where the subject is alive, the images fails WP:NFCC#1. The images of deceased individuals where there are free photos also fail WP:NFCC#1. The sole image that does not fit into either category (File:Pauline Koner - 1940s.jpg) might reasonably be used as a non-free file of a deceased person. If someone produces a non-free rationale I will happily restore that image. Cheers, TLSuda (talk) 01:42, 28 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

File:Cybill Shepherd - 1973.jpg (delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Light show ( | contribs | uploads | upload log).

File:Pauline Koner - 1940s.jpg (delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Light show ( | contribs | uploads | upload log)

File:Myrna Fahey - 1961.jpg (delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Light show ( | contribs | uploads | upload log)

File:John Cassavetes - 1958.jpg (delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Light show ( | contribs | uploads | upload log)

File:Elke Sommer - 1967.jpg (delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Light show ( | contribs | uploads | upload log)

File:Dorothy Dandridge - 1959.jpg (delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Light show ( | contribs | uploads | upload log)

File:Marian Anderson - 1947.jpg (delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Light show ( | contribs | uploads | upload log)

File:Gertrude Lawrence - 1947.jpg (delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Light show ( | contribs | uploads | upload log)

File:William Powell - 1947.jpg (delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Light show ( | contribs | uploads | upload log)

File:Neile Adams - 1957.jpg (delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Light show ( | contribs | uploads | upload log)

File:Benny Goodman - 1942.jpg (delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Light show ( | contribs | uploads | upload log)

File:Ann Sheridan - 1956.jpg (delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Light show ( | contribs | uploads | upload log)

File:Tovah Feldshuh- 1976.jpg (delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Light show ( | contribs | uploads | upload log)

File:Geraldine Fitzgerald - 1946.jpg (delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Light show ( | contribs | uploads | upload log)

File:Bob Fosse - 1980s.jpg (delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Light show ( | contribs | uploads | upload log)

File:David Mamet - 1978.jpg (delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Light show ( | contribs | uploads | upload log)

File:Claudette Colbert - 1946.jpg (delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by Light show ( | contribs | uploads | upload log)

No information regarding authorship. No evidence as to the fact of publication. No evidence as to the date of publication, if any. No evidence as to the location of publication, if any. No evidence as to the manner of publication, if any, particularly as to whether the original publication carried a copyright notice. The absolute absence of relevant information accompanying these images -- the photo backs do no more than identify the subject and carry date stamps of unknown significance -- means that we have no basis for reliably determining that these images were published under circumstances establishing them as free/public domain; what little information we have is equally consistent, if not more so, with their being photographers' file copies. The mere fact that a single print was made from a photographic negative cannot demonstrate that the image was published. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo) (talk) 23:37, 20 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

• The above rationales for deletion, if allowed, imply that no publicity photos would be acceptable in Wikipedia and could be deleted at any time. It's impossible to know that kind of detailed background for any one of mass produced publicity photos which were sent to thousands of newspapers and magazines as part of press kits.. See film still article, which explains that "publicity photos were traditionally not copyrighted," or a recent discussion about publicity photos in general. --Light show (talk) 01:19, 21 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • We require strong evidence that something is in the PD. If this means that untraceable pub. shoots would be rendered as non-free than free, so be it. (That is, there is still potential value for any of these shots where the people is deceased, we'd just have use these as non-free elements). --MASEM (t) 06:24, 21 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep but reduce the size and turn into non-free images per obvious caution. Even if non-free, fair use of such images for deceased, very notable people is allowed when free alternatives are unavailable. When/if more informations will surface, they could be eventually marked as free again. Delete the Elke Sommer's pic as she worked for years in Italy before 1976 and there should be quite a lot of images of her which are in the public domain in the United States under PD-ITALY permission. Also delete the David Mamet's pic as we have a bunch of free-of-use alternatives ([1]). Cavarrone 09:53, 21 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Unfortunately, the option that Cavarrone proposes isn't open to us here. First of all, several of the people involved are still living. Second, under NFCC policy, as well as fair use standards, the images must have been previously published -- and we have no evidence of prior, authorized, publication. Third, for virtually every one of the people listed, we already have free images -- so that nonfree images can't be used. Light show evidently prefers PR headshots to screenshots and images showing more than one person, but under our nonfree use policy, subjective aspects like that can't justify use of a nonfree image when a free image is available. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo) (talk) 14:25, 21 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • Mmmm, you are true and I was definitely inaccurate in my proposal... stricken. Cavarrone 15:46, 21 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

• Defining evidence of publication. Since most of the rationale for deleting this sizable group of photos is related to showing more evidence of "publication," I'll add some more details, FWIW. To start, the discussion for this photo includes some legal definitions of publication, mostly added by We hope in the lower portion. For photos like publicity stills, intended to to distributed to the media for publication, publication takes place when the photo is made, not when it's printed in a magazine or newspaper. The very act of printing them for a press kit is the publication. To help clarify, I uploaded this photo of Frank Capra looking over stills for an upcoming movie he directed. The stills department was an arm of marketing, not production.

The source of the photos is important. In this case, they are from a professional dealer selling "vintage" and "original" photos. This dealer currently has about 25,000 original vintage photos for sale from their ebay site, with prices averaging around $20 each. They have a nearly perfect feedback rating of 99.9%, which is extraordinary, and means they know what they are selling and they're descriptions can be relied on for accuracy. If they sold a vintage photo which a buyer did not think was an original as described in the listing, a buyer would have lowered their rating. Their photos are dated based on original stamps or writings, as in File:Cybill Shepherd - 1973.jpg's, and they include any other printed details when available, as in this one or this one.

It's not necessary to know exactly how, when or where a particular publicity photo was published, since press kits were sent out by the thousands to the media. It's also possible to do a word search for a photo like Cybill Shepherd's, dated 1973, to see if it was registered. As publicity photos, there's no reason to think that these were single prints made by a photographer from their negative, as you stated, and we do have a substantial, if not reasonable, basis for treating them as "originals" with no notice, and properly dated.--Light show (talk) 16:55, 21 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

• If what you assert is true, they should be uploaded to Commons. Many similar publicity photos are there. Secondarywaltz (talk) 00:33, 25 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

• Light show's analysis isn't sound, and they've been indef-blocked at Commons with many of their uploads deleted over similar reports. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo) (talk) 10:40, 27 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
• Yes, but still blocked at Commons - per explanations there, where they want more details, as noted by the blocking admin: Unless we have definitive, explicit written and/or textual, tangible evidence from a credible, verifiable source naming this file as freely licensed under a Commons compatible license, we simply cannot host it on Commons. Considering that most of the images are vintage publicity stills with no copyright notice, the block was equivalent to hearing the title of a recent movie: Good Night, and Good Luck. --Light show (talk) 17:57, 27 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.