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Category:Telenovelas by country of setting
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Category:Presidents of the United Nations Security Council
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Nominator's rationale: This is an ex-officio position that rotates on a more or less monthly basis. As such, holding that position is not WP:DEFINING of the person who held it, who is usually a head of the delegation (and sometimes a head of state) and notable for many other reasons. There is a list, which is useful, but categorizing everyone who has sat in that chair just adds category clutter otherwise. Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 20:11, 16 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Delete -- With a frequently rotating chairmanship, almost every Permanent Representative of a state that is a Secutity Council member is likely to hold the office. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:13, 19 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:King Adora
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Nominator's rationale:Delete. With only songs and albums subcategories, this is overcategorization per WP:OC#Eponymous. Linking from the main article serves the same purpose and the two subcats are interlinked. --StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me17:23, 16 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Graphviz
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Category:Putta Surya Narasinga Rao
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Category:People who knew William Shakespeare
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Nominator's rationale: This is the only "People who knew..." category and IMO it's not a road we should go down ("People who knew Adolf Hitler", "People who knew George Washington" ...). DexDor (talk) 06:02, 16 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
delete a dangerous road to go down. Next is 'people who once met Shakespeare' and 'people who stayed at hotels which used to be the home of XXX'. Clearly not defining.--Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 11:29, 16 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
strong keep. The context is being ignored. It is a fundamental part of controversialist literature that 'Shakespeare' is not the Shakespeare of Stratford. There is extraordinary confusion, particularly on net sites, as to who knew or is said to have known, the real Shakespeare. This cat will certainly enable the wiki reader to rapidly access all wiki pages on Shakespeare's acquaintances, where the relevant details of the association are given. The Hitler/George Washington analogies are wrong, because you have there casts of several hundreds or (tens of) thousands, and their identity is not, as here, challenged. Nishidani (talk) 14:08, 16 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
No matter how important "acquaintances" is in the literature, we don't categorize people by who they knew or were friends with. Some of these people might usefully be categorized as "Members of Shakespeare's theater company" or something like that.--Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 17:28, 16 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
'We' I presume means customary practice. Wikipedia is more creative in designing and making choices by consensus, surely, than this. I gather there is a fear this will create a precedent. The point is, Shakespeare's identity is, rather uniquely because of the polemics surrounding him, substantially established or corroborated by the testimonies of those who knew him, - he has been targeted for historical exceptionalism in other words, since no one else's identity has to be certified by he testimony of friends.Nishidani (talk) 18:57, 16 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
All good meal for an article on shakespeare's identity and how it was so-formed. I looked at the ledes of the articles in this category, most say something like "X was an actor who formed part of Shakespeare's first troupe" or "X was a writer and contemporary of Shakespeare" etc. None of them say "X is noted as one of the few people in the world who actually met Shakespeare". We should not use categories to write an article.--Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 19:13, 16 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Tom... While you have technical permissions to be able to move categories, it is generally frowned upon, and especially when the category itself is under discussion. Can you revert and allow proper consensus to arise first?--Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 20:28, 16 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Ditto51's Continuum Project
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Category:Super-Secret BAD Cabal
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Category:Keynote speaker
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Nominator's rationale:Delete This is not a defining feature and the membership criterion ("those famous for being a Keynote Speaker") is very imprecise, almost subjective. I think this will cause clutter without a clear benefit in terms of meaningful categorization and browsing. Pichpich (talk) 00:26, 16 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
delete there are already two reasonable parents, which I added this to, that are much more defining - Tony Robbins for example I think is defined as a motivational speaker. That he is sometimes invited to give a keynote somewhere is not defining however. I"m not sure how many of these people could fit into public orators, which seems like a more specific job, but I added it as a parent anyway just in case - so selective up merge to parents, on a case by case basis, and delete.--Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 03:43, 16 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
A number of the contents are described as "motivational speakers" in the lede. I think that works as a defining category - however someone who is known for giving keynotes? Not really.--Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 17:32, 16 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Steve Jobs isn't a motivational speaker. Keynote is about the event of the company or institution. Motivational speaker is about the person. DreamFocus20:52, 16 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Looking through the rest, most of them seem to be motivational speakers. Looking at definition for "keynote speaker" elsewhere, I find it is different than that in the article keynote. So never mind. DreamFocus21:01, 16 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Ashunigam added things to this category. All I did after looking into it, was create the actual page so it wasn't a red link, and instead linked to keynote speaker. Reliable sources do note Steve Jobs was famous for being a keynote speaker. See this article about that at Forbes. [1] Search for the name of anyone on the list and the word "keynote". This is a valid category. DreamFocus 03:54, 16 June 2014 (UTC) Changed to don't care. DreamFocus21:01, 16 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Another one of these categories with no objective criteria. Very few people derive their primary (or any) notability from being a keynote speaker rather than a motivational one. It's unclear how many keynote speeches you have to give to be in this category...does President Clinton qualify for all the post-presidency speechifying he does? If so, the category is hopelessly broad, as anybody of a certain repute has delivered dozens of keynotes. If not, who does? Objectively putting people into this category is hampered by no definitive reference that tracks all keynotes. The creator's keep rationale is unconvincing. pbp04:48, 16 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The inclusion criteria is clear. "A category for those who reliable sources state are well known for being a Keynote Speaker." Did the Forbes article I linked to not prove Steve Jobs was famous for that? His article even goes on about his famous Keynote speeches, which became known as Stevenotes. DreamFocus04:58, 16 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
You don't see the problem with that? Anybody who received coverage for giving a keynote speech could be in that category. None of the people in the category, then or now, derive their notability primarily from being keynote speakers and not something else pbp17:05, 16 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Delete (1) it is too like a performance by performer category. (2) It is too vague to make a useful category: many conferneces have a keynote speaker. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:19, 19 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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