Langbahn Team – Weltmeisterschaft

Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 February 27

February 27

Category:Psalters

The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category or categories above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was rename Category:Psalters to Category:Illuminated psalters. Angus McLellan (Talk) 19:49, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Propose renaming: Category:Psalters to Category:Illuminated psalters Rationale: The intention is to create a sub-category that can also be a sub-category of Category:Illuminated manuscripts (or possibly a sub-category of that). Category:Psalters will be recreated as the parent category, and the few articles on non-illuminated books transferred there, plus some others added. The great majority of articles now in the category are on illuminated manuscript psalters. Johnbod 23:41, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support I initially thought that we adding too many minor categories in order to accommodate the 2 existing articles on printed (not illuminated) Psalters. However, in terms of art history, the distinction is important. I also thought it would have been better to create the new category first, and populate it, keeping the 2 articles in the parent category (bypassing CfD altogether). However, those minor things aside, I support this proposal.-Andrew c 01:57, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
My count of articles for the parent category is currently 47; there may well be others now or later. Johnbod 03:49, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Now 7 in fact. To be clear, they are: Latin Psalters, Metrical psalter, Irish bog psalter (I think), Psalter, Davids' Psalter,Bay Psalm Book & the poor stub Psalter (Roman Catholic). Some are now in Category:Psalms. As DGG says, there are 13 illuminated ones now in the category. Johnbod 15:10, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
True - I thought this would be less work. I won't make that mistake again, but it does give the matter (slightly) wider exposure. Johnbod 21:27, 3 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Captain America television series

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The result of the debate was delete. --RobertGtalk 10:14, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Captain America television series ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

There are none whatsoever, he merely appears in others. Delete per same rationale under which Captain America, Iron Man films etc. were deleted. ~ZytheTalk to me! 23:39, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Blade television series

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The result of the debate was delete.--Wizardman 06:16, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Blade television series ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

There's only one, which belongs solely in the Category:Television programs based on Marvel Comics parent. ~ZytheTalk to me! 23:39, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:HSNUers

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The result of the debate was rename both. First one looks to have been taken care of already, second one can be done no problem.--Wizardman 17:05, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Propose renaming Category:HSNUers to Category:The Affiliated Senior High School of National Taiwan Normal University alumni
Nominator's Rationale: Rename, Eliminate abbreviation in category name and follow pattern of other categories of school alumni. BigrTex 22:09, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with the rationale; however, I'm not sure about the definite article. The Wikipedia naming conventions on schools and definite articles at the beginning of a name both advise strongly against it, "even if the official name of the university uses the definite article". Thus, I would propose to rename to Category:Affiliated Senior High School of National Taiwan Normal University alumni instead. The name of the article The Affiliated Senior High School of National Taiwan Normal University would also have to be renamed to Affiliated Senior High School of National Taiwan Normal University. CounterFX 16:04, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Marshals of the United States

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The result of the discussion was: Speedily deleted February 27th by User:Neutrality[1], presumably under WP:CSD#C1, but never closed. --tjstrf talk 11:56, 4 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Marshals of the United States ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

empty cat which is not needed — MrDolomite • Talk 21:55, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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Category:Lasallian universities and colleges

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The result of the debate was rename Category:Lasallian universities and colleges to Category:Lasallian educational institutions. Angus McLellan (Talk) 19:54, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Propose renaming Category:Lasallian universities and colleges to Category:Lasallian educational institutions
Nominator's Rationale: Rename to Category:Lasallian educational institutions (or Category:Lasallian schools). This would eliminate the need of having separate categories for "Lasallian high schools", "Lasallian primary schools", etc. If the proposal is accepted, the article Lasallian universities and colleges should also be renamed to Lasallian educational institutions (or Lasallian schools). CounterFX 19:25, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Rename. For the reason mentioned above. --Mithril Cloud 22:57, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Rename per nom Johnbod 00:06, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Nomination corrected per ReeseM's point. CounterFX 15:53, 4 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Anti-Islam sentiment (2nd nomination)

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The result of the debate was No consensus Tim! 09:50, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Anti-Islam sentiment ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Delete, inappropriate category in that it fundamentally violates WP:NPOV: no neutral, referenced definition of what exactly "Anti-Islam sentiment" is is given. I seriously doubt any such neutral definition that complied with WP:NPOV could be given. Furthermore, I have serious concerns about the way in which this category is being used: see [2] where I removed this category from a WP:BLP article, along with a host of completely unsourced and potentially libellous information: another questionable use of the category is at United Kingdom debate over veils. But most importantly, this category fails WP:NPOV. Moreschi Request a recording? 18:49, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

please limit your comments to this page and not libellous non-related info on Jesse's page.
  • Strong Delete - Another of the "stance" categories that are difficult verify in application, and are being seriously misuesed in BLP articles and in general to push POV. - Crockspot 18:55, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per Antisemitism precedent. deleting this while keep the Antisemitism category makes no sense and would be more biased than keeping either. Wiki must be balanced and i have noticed these same people deleting this page wouldnt dare delete the hundred of people mislabelled with the antisemitic tag for merely voicing critic of Israel. So why allow that and delete this? I think also this is an illegal nomination as the verdict was reached in dec 2006. So are we saying Islamaphobic bigots should not be added to a cat?--HalaTruth(ሐላቃህ) 19:20, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - As a general rule, I am opposed to all "stance" categories, including "antisemitism". If it came up in CfD, I would vote to delete it as well. - Crockspot 19:38, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - agreed: precedent is no guide for us at deletion discussions; see WP:ILIKEIT and WP:CCC. Two wrongs don't make a right. Moreschi Request a recording? 19:40, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Agreed too. Incidentally, the correct parallel for "Anti-Islam sentiment" would be "Anti-Judaism sentiment" - and it's possible to be against Judaism (a religion) without being an anti-Semite (e.g. Nietzsche). --Folantin 19:46, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
CatJw if you can get that antisemitic cat deleted i would give my vote to delete this one, but you know that you could never do that.--HalaTruth(ሐላቃህ) 00:51, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Such cases would be placed in the category Critics of Islam, of course. Kyaa the Catlord 11:36, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hmmm, good point. There is certainly a question about why we need both. Metamagician3000 11:52, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Kyaa kindly reminds you of WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS. Kyaa the Catlord 16:06, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Yes, but this is notable and not "crap". // Liftarn
Your argument is still a logical fallacy. Just because those other categories exist is no reason this one should exist. See the "don't pollute the pond" essay which illustrates this succinctly. Kyaa the Catlord 16:11, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It is a valid category on it's own and that simmilar categories exists proof that it is a valit type of category. // Liftarn
You are making false parallels. There's a difference between Anti-catholicism and "Anti-Islam sentiment", which is hopelessly ill-defined and as such is blatant POV. Moreschi Request a recording? 16:50, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I'd also point out that any attempt to define this category has been meant with even more POV pushing, disregard for apparent consensus and (as shown on Ann Coulter's talk page personal attacks and more BLP infractions. Kyaa the Catlord 16:53, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Plus categories can't be referenced. There is no way of adding footnotes to back up the POV allegation that X is "Anti-Islam sentiment". Anyone can slap this ill-defined label on any article they like. --Folantin 17:08, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
A quick reading of the Ann Coulter article tells me there should be a a big red stamp saying "RACIST" all over her. The quotes listed are extremley hatefull. Calling her a "critic of Islam" is like calling Hitler a "critic of Judaism". // Liftarn
Comment If you get that simply by glancing at the article, why do we need to break WP:OR and WP:NPOV by analyzing it for you and placing a category at the bottom? Kyaa the Catlord 17:20, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Because categories makes things easier to find. Say I want to investigate anti-Muslim racists it would be very nice to have them bunched together in a category. // Liftarn
Comment - That gives me a great idea for other categories to create - Category:Cut 'n run Democrats and Category:Moonbats to be rounded up and put into FEMA camps. Obviously, I'm joking here, but I don't think you are joking, and that's pretty frightening. - Crockspot 19:47, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
False parallels? Why so? Anti-Catholicism and anti-Islam sentiment are two parallels (well, actually the parallel to anti-Islam sentiment would be anti-Christian sentiment). // Liftarn
Comment "Say I want to investigate anti-Muslim racists it would be very nice to have them bunched together in a category". That's exactly the kind of reasoning which shows why we shouldn't have this list. "Anti-Muslim racists"? By whose definition? And it's not like there are libel laws to worry about or anything...--Folantin 17:51, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment By the definition of a WP:RS ofcourse. The same goes for the other simmilar categories. // Liftarn
Oh, and these cats should only be populated with "academic" criticisms. Not just any middle of the road person or (political) organization. Intangible2.0 20:45, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - There already was a Category:Critics of Islam, which was deleted today under unanimous consensus for being POV and too broad. (See Feb 24 log). - Crockspot 17:03, 2 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Notable graves of Aldershot Military Cemetery

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The result of the debate was rename Category:Notable graves of Aldershot Military Cemetery to Category:Burials at Aldershot Military Cemetery. Angus McLellan (Talk) 20:21, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Propose renaming Category:Notable graves of Aldershot Military Cemetery to Category:Burials at Aldershot Military Cemetery
Nominator's Rationale: Rename, Categories should not start with "Notable". This proposed name follows the convention of Category:Burials at Arlington National Cemetery. --After Midnight 0001 17:15, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result of the debate was merge Category:Traditional Foods of the United States into Category:American cuisine. Angus McLellan (Talk) 20:13, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Merge into Category:American cuisine, Category:American cuisine by region as needed. Duplication of existing cats. -- Prove It (talk) 15:00, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. Jsderwin 15:31, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Merge although I am not endorsing the content of the current category. TonyTheTiger 20:38, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per nom Johnbod 00:06, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Merge // Liftarn
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Merge to Category:Diabetics.--Mike Selinker 08:49, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Merge into Category:Diabetics, with only 6 members, its way too small to split. -- Prove It (talk) 14:39, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, size is often quite relevant in these cfd discussions when splitting a category creates issues for readers trying to find information. For example, in this case you have a parent category that is so small that subdividing it means that readers would have to search through multiple subcategories to find the associated articles of the parent category. The question is whether or not the subcategory is hindering the search utility of the parent category, and the size of the categories in question are an important indicator in that discussion. Dugwiki 18:16, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Additionally, there's nothing inherently "Irish" about being a diabetic. Going through some other subcategories of Category:People by medical or psychological condition at random, I've not found another that has subcategories by nationality. Additionally, most people, probibly the vast majority, who would be categorized here should also be categorized under some other category that would include nationality. Gentgeen 22:21, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. There's nothing Irish about diabetes, and the parent category is not large enough to be subdivided by arbitrary criteria yet (nationality is always arbitrary and I'm ready to start talking about other methods for all categorization, by the way). In addition, the parent category is trivial and should be nominated for deletion after this closes. coelacan21:28, 3 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Cities in the UTC timezone

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The result of the debate was delete all.--Wizardman 16:39, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Cities in the UTC timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC-12 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC-11 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC-10 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC-9:30 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC-9 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC-8 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC-7 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC-6 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC-5 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC-4 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC-3:30 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC-3.5 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC-3 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC-2:30 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC-2 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC-1 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC-0:25 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC0 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC+0:20 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC+0:30 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC+1 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC+2 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC+3 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC+3:30 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC+4 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC+4:30 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC+4:51 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC+5 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC+5:30 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC+5:40 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC+5:45 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC+6 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC+6:30 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC+7 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC+7:20 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC+7:30 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC+8 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC+8:30 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC+8:45 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC+9 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC+9:30 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC+10 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC+10:30 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC+11 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC+11:30 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC+12 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC+12:45 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC+13 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC+13:45 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Category:Cities in the UTC+14 timezone ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Delete this and all its subcategories as a misuse of categories per all the previous discussions on other variants. ReeseM 12:23, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have no idea what you are on about, but removing the template was misconduct, so I will restore it. LukeHoC 14:03, 3 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This is a discussion, and you are asking for a ban from Wikipedia if you continue this disruptive activity when it has been emphatically rejected several times. ReeseM 13:48, 4 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note for closing admin CyclePat created another bunch of these on 2 March, even though it was clear by then that there is a consensus to delete all such categories. Please delete and block all variants, whether or not anyone has had a chance to tag them. ReeseM 13:51, 4 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You're making things all the more frustrating by creating bureaucratic tape and making people replicate a conversation which was already happening concerning category:Cities in the UTC-5 timezone. (the direct link here) I don't know about you but I call that being a WP:DICK, specially for those that do not want to have a conversation repeated 10 times and who would just like to get to work at simply fixing some cities that are not using the correct infobox template or some cities that need to have a timezone. --CyclePat 01:44, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Institute of Food Technologists fellows

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The result of the debate was Rename. Vegaswikian 06:20, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Propose renaming Category:Institute of Food Technologists fellows to Category:Fellows of the Institute of Food Technologists
Nominator's Rationale: Rename, to match the layout and capitalisation of others in Category:Members of learned societies. 137.222.189.198 11:28, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Albums Produced by Josh Abraham

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The result of the debate was Keep but rename to remove capital P Tim! 09:52, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Albums Produced by Josh Abraham ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Listify and Delete. — RevRagnarok Talk Contrib 11:27, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete At first blush, I am pro producer categories. However, now it seems albums are produced with indivual songs having different producers or with albums having long lists of producers. See The_Emancipation_of_Mimi. As a result producer categories will lead to category clutter. TonyTheTiger 20:49, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Fellows of the ACM

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The result of the debate was rename. --RobertGtalk 16:26, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Propose renaming Category:Fellows of the ACM to Category:Fellows of the Association for Computing Machinery
Nominator's Rationale: Rename, to expand the abbreviation. No objection to this being done at speed, but it doesn't appear to meet the criteria. 137.222.189.198 11:24, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Fictional characters who have the power of vocal persuasion

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The result of the debate was delete Tim! 09:54, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Fictional characters who have the power of vocal persuasion ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  • Mutes don't. And these categories carry with them the implication that the power in question is of a superhuman level. If this needs to be renamed to "...with the superhuman power of..." I suppose it can be, but most folks are intuitive enough to get it wihout that level of specificity. Otto4711 19:49, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Bosnian War

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The result of the discussion was: no consensus.--Mike Selinker 03:36, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming Category:Bosnian War to Category:War in Bosnia and Herzegovina
Nominator's Rationale: Rename, The main article of this category, Bosnian War was renamed fairly long ago; the category should follow suit. The longer title is more "official", the current, shorter, more colloquial. Just for consistency. Duja 10:23, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Bosnian genocide

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The result of the discussion was: no consensus.--Mike Selinker 03:36, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Bosnian genocide to Category:War crimes in Bosnia and Herzegovina

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Category:Fictional characters with the power to generate and manipulate radiation

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The result of the debate was this debate's closed, whatever's decided here will be the fate of this category as well. temporarily no consensus--Wizardman 02:33, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Fictional characters with the power to generate and manipulate radiation ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Speedy delete and salt as recreated (for the third or fourth time) category. CovenantD 09:56, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's not just "effectively the recreation". It's a deliberate recreation, per its creator's talk page remarks. When the unsigned category creator says it should never have been deleted, that comment acknowledges this as the same category despite the tweaking of its name.[4] Doczilla 18:07, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Speedy delete. - Kittybrewster 10:49, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Speedy delete as a recreation of an overly broad cat. You know... this and the "Characters that can self rez" cats just beg for a joke... bean up the nose or no bean up the nose... — J Greb 11:06, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Nuclear Keep even though I know it's a lost cause, because I disagree with the rationale offered for the original deletion. That nom initially got tagged as speedy for being "patent nonsense" which was ridiculous, and then got argued down by such arguments as "a white sheet 'manipulates' radiation by absorbing it." Which ignores completely the fact that outside "The Brave Little Toaster" sheets and blankets tend not to be "fictional characters" and also ignores the implied scope of the category being superhuman manipulation. The category fills a gap in the superhuman powers category tree to capture characters whose powers are otherwise uncategorized. I get that policy pretty much dictates that this go away but that don't mean I gotta like it. Otto4711 15:41, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment While this run at it has a better titling, making it less prone to what was the original objection. It may have been better served if the editor creating the cat had waited a few months as opposed to a few weeks. That would have made for a valid argument for "No Speedy" as there had been reasonable time for consensus to change. - J Greb 18:45, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, I actually agree with Otto.~ZytheTalk to me! 15:45, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Speedy delete recreation of overly broad category. Doczilla 17:37, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - Since this is starting to get bogged down because it's being treated as a Deletion review, let me expand on the reasons why this is an inappropriate category. "Radiation in physics is the process of emitting energy in the form of waves or particles." This runs the gamut of the electromagnetic spectrum as well as fictional sources. EVERY SINGLE FICTIONAL CHARACTER emits radiation, as body heat if nothing else. Even if this were changed to "superhuman ability," it would still encompass all light, electricity and magnetism-based characters, psychic abilites, fire manipulators, temperature-changers, gravity manipulators, force-field projectors, as well as those with any form of enhanced vision powers (just off the top of my head). In short, it's way to broad to accomplish a very narrow goal. Now let's focus on the merits of the nomination, which is Recreation of a deleted category and leave any other arguments for DRV. CovenantD 20:05, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well, no, I think we can talk about the category now since it exists and all. There are other categories for characters who manipulate fire, ice and cold, electricity, magnetism, light and so forth and it does not appear that the people populating the category are willy-nilly including light manipulators, electricity manipulators and so forth because they understand that the category is not designed for them. Otto4711 22:06, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well again, under the theory of WP:ASSUMEEDITORSARENOTSTUPID (is that a guideline or an essay? Maybe it oughtta be), in neither this nor the previous creation of the category was plagued by editors adding characters who cast shadows. As I said the last time, almost every fictional character has the "power to manipulate fire" by blowing out a candle and the "power to manipulate water" by drinking it. However, those power catagories don't seem to be suffering from overpopulation by fictional candle-blower-outers or fictional water-drinkers because editors know better than to add them. If at some point this category became overrun by fictional characters who cast shadows than such arguments might start making sense. Since this has not happened and since there are no signs based on existing categories that it will happen, I find the objection ludicrous. Otto4711 15:34, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - but for a different reason. I think its intention is clear enough - it means, I take it, something like superpowered characters who are depicted as manipulators of electro-magnetic energy. The trouble is that there are huge numbers of such characters, as well as huge numbers of potential arguments about whether particular characters fall within the borders. I think we can take it for granted that such powers are commonplace among superpowered characters, just as some degree of superhuman strength and resilience are commonplace. They don't need categories. Metamagician3000 11:49, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • STRONG RENAME This category should never have been deleted. However, it is slightly too broad. I suggest a rename to "Fictional characters with the power to manipulate nuclear radiation".
  • If you have the power to do it at superhuman levels then by all means let's get you categorized! Or, we could stop with this sham "everything emits radiation so people are gonna start putting lightbulbs in the category" argument. Has there been any great history in the Category:Fictional characters by superhuman power ctageory tree to categorize characters without superhuman powers in them? I haven't noticed it when I've browsed the categories, so I'm not sure where all this hand-wringing at the notion that a flood of inappropriate characters are going to start showing up in this category is coming from.
Keep. Every character currently categorized here carries a supernatural or superhuman ability to manipulate radiation beyond the norm. That is what any casual visitor (such as myself) would expect the category to contain, and it seems to match any other such criteria. Basically, this cat does its job; I see no reason to remove it other than bureaucratic regulations, which seem to be out of place here. One man's opinion. Radagast 00:10, 2 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. And possibly rename, it is a sorely needed category because there are a lot of characters in the project that "generate and manipulate radiation", we just need something a little tighter? Maybe "Fictional characters with the power to manipulate electromagnetic and particle radiation" or just "Fictional characters with the power to manipulate particle radiation". --Basique 21:33, 4 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
If this information needs to be kept, simply place it in a list that is included in the main article. Vegaswikian 22:32, 4 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Per discussions above and in the past on categories of this type. Vegaswikian 22:30, 4 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment - What I find very interesting after doing contribution searches on everyone who voted to delete this category, is that 75% of the Wikipedians who voted to delete this category have never contributed to the Comics Project. So how exactly is it that they feel capable of offering such strong informed opinions? --Basique 00:33, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      • Comment That's slightly disingenuous, if not condescending. The CfD process is open to all and, in general, looks at how the creation of cats is being done. The latter only requires that someone takes a look at the material in the cats, how the cat is named and defined, and the guidelines related to cats. And even that isn't mandatory. — J Greb 00:57, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep In my opinion the majority of people who read the category title "the power to generate and manipulate radiation" would not leap to the view that this was a category for characters who's 'power' is casting shadows/reflecting light and to assert that is just being pedantry. I'm not a fan of all the power categories but if you can have categories for those who manipulate air or categories for those who have super strength then the main arguments against this category (too broad/too over populated) become meaningless. If these criticisms are acceptable then many other valid/popular categories of superhuman powers will need to go as well.Palendrom 02:45, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Speedy delete. Same problem as before. What's radiaton? Are energy blasts radiation? Is DC-style hard light radiation? Does a character who manipulates light (Umbra/Shadow Lass, Dazzler) belong in this category?
    Vaguely defined, links unrelated characters across many genres, in-universe organization (instead of real-world organization). Get rid of this for the same reason as last time. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 03:34, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment - UPDATE: It seems that an editor has recently been adding characters who generate heat and/or light to this category. This includes characters whose only claim is "heat vision," such as Superman. CovenantD 05:14, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      • Comment That really does not bode well for the argument that such character won't be double catted on those grounds. That editor's actions also do not help the argument that the arguments put forward by Radagast and Palendrom. This is an editor who works hard on the superhero related articles that is overly broadly applying the cat. — J Greb 05:25, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - I have just discovered that Basique is attempting to sway the outcome of this "vote."[5] CovenantD 06:13, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment - Solar radiation is both electromagnetic radiation and particle radiation, light from a star is radiant energy and radiant energy is a byproduct of "electromagnetic radiation". "Electromagnetic radiation" covers light (infrared, ultraviolet, x-rays, gamma rays, microwaves), but "particle radiation" covers the nasty charged particle alpha, beta and neutron family. There are three types of emissive radiation. For radiation truly to be covered we'd need threee categories. Fictional characters with the power to manipulate particle radiation (guys like Firestorm and Nuke), Fictional characters with the power to manipulate electromagnetic radiation (guys like Magneto and Doctor Light) and Fictional characters with the power to manipulate gravitational radiation (guys like Graviton). --Basique 17:50, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Response to all of the "what about people who generate this kind of radiation" people - Please look at the catgeory tree. There are already categories for people who manipulate light and darkness and gravity and magnetic fields, and (absent one apparently zealous editor mentioned further up the thread) there is little rush to put people like Dazzler or Umbra or Magneto or Graviton in it. This argument is a false dilemma and with the same sort of care offered to other categories I really don't see miscategorization as that great of an issue. Otto4711 19:50, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - This entire debate demonstrates one of the reasons why I want to nominate Category:Fictional characters by superhuman power for deletion. People cannot agree on the interpretations of these categories. In this particular case, the issue is the interpretation of "radiation". Some Wikipedia editors (and probably some comic book writers) may not understand the difference between electromagnetic radiation (including gamma rays and X-rays), particle radiation (such as alpha particles and beta particles), and other forces (gravity, the weak force, and the strong force). Moreover, some people may try to include people who manipulate cold or heat or fire or electricity or something else, which may not necessarily be the same thing. I was told in one of the previous debates that Cyclops (comics) also does not count as "generating radiation" because his optical blasts are "concussion blasts", which makes little sense to me. Categories should not be so difficult to interpret. This is why the category should be deleted. Dr. Submillimeter 22:43, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment It is also worth noting that even among the proponents of the retention of this cat there is disagreement as to what exactly it should contain. Up to and including one supporter removing articles that another supporter had added. If it isn't that clear cut, then it is better served by a list where annotations can be made. — J Greb 00:36, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think it will devolve to a hundred different discussions on each articles' talk page, with no consistant parameters being set because each editor has a different idea of what the category is supposed to include. We will continue to see light manipulators and shadow maniplators and things like Superman's heat vision included when one editor sees the category and starts adding to article after article with no discussion or in ignorance of previous discussions. CovenantD 18:20, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep (for now) - This category is unclear at best; it does not specify whether it's electromagnetic radiation or nuclear radiation. It's also rather specific. However, there are plenty of other categories just as nebulous or woolly; here's some relating specifically to various forms of energy:
  • Fictional characters with the power to manipulate electricity
  • Fictional characters with the power to manipulate fire
  • Fictional characters with the power to manipulate gravity
  • Fictional characters with the power to manipulate light
  • Fictional characters with the power to manipulate magnetic fields
  • Fictional characters with the power to generate and manipulate radiation
I could spend an evening or two discoursing on how each of these categories could rate being eliminated or not, as there's plenty of overlap among them. I'd say there's a bunch of superpower categories that need to be examined. My two bits worth, and now I'm going back to my essay. Jackytar 03:45, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Fictional characters with the power of advanced hearing

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The result of the debate was delete. the wub "?!" 00:13, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Fictional characters with the power of advanced hearing ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Delete, overly specific category. Most times when a fictional character has super-sensitive earing, it isn't a "power" so much as a trait of their species. Alternatively, a rename to Fictional characters with advanced hearing or something to that effect would be appropriate. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 09:42, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment There is a problem with that, "superhuman" boils down to "beyond the natural (ie 'real world') scope of human ability or physiology." It does make for a good NPOV bench mark but it does present a problem when dealing with lots of fictional characters.
If it only apples to humans, and for arguments sake that definition would have to be broadened to allow for mutant and mutated humans, all non-humans get cut. While that eliminates animals and potentially things like werewolves (separate debate as to them being human, mutant, or "other" dependant on source) it also eliminates characters like Superman.
If it is not limited to "humans only" then all characters have to be evaluated by that criteria. And you wind up with:
  • Superhuman hearing: Superman, Mr Spock, Rin Tin Tin, etc
  • Superhuman strength: the Thing, Gorilla Grodd, Detective Chimp, etc
  • Superhuman intellect: Braniac, C-3P0, HAL, etc
  • Superhuman (implied) durability: Thor, the Terminator, Godzilla, etc
And so on. — J Greb 21:11, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Tinnitus sufferers

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The result of the debate was delete (with no offence to Bedřich Smetana). --RobertGtalk 09:58, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Tinnitus sufferers ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Rename to Category:People with tinnitus. If the category must exist at all, it should have the most objective title possible. "People with tinnitus" is straightforward and objective without characterizing the individuals. Changing the name would also make it consistent with categories like Category:People with spasmodic dysphonia, Category:People with multiple sclerosis, Category:People with muscular dystrophy, Category:People with motor neuron disease. Doczilla 08:50, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Parkinson's disease sufferers

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The result of the debate was rename. --RobertGtalk 09:39, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Parkinson's disease sufferers ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Rename to Category:People with Parkinson's disease which is straightforward and objective without qualifying how the individuals feel about having it. The most objective name is preferable. Changing the name would also make it consistent with categories like Category:People with bipolar disorder, Category:People with severe brain damage, Category:People with eating disorders, Category:People with disabilities. Doczilla 08:49, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Gibraltarian law

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The result of the discussion was: speedy delete (empty).--Mike Selinker 11:21, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Gibraltarian law ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Empty category; content is in Category:Gibraltar law. — Rebelguys2 talk 08:35, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The correct term is Gibraltar law. --Gibnews 11:12, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Multiple part television episodes

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The result of the debate was delete. --RobertGtalk 09:38, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Multiple part television episodes ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Delete, This is not a useful category. Grouping episodes together across genres, series, networks and just because they span more than one episode is not helpful. MakeRocketGoNow 05:43, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete this ridiculously broad, utterly useless, and harder-to-define-than-one-might-think category. I was going to nominate this one for CfD, but someone else beat me to it. Doczilla 08:37, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Multiple part television episodes is a common phenomenon in television. I don't see why it is hard to define: multiple part television episodes almost always end with a "To Be Continued" message, and they have the same titles (with the exception that they are suffixed with ..Part I and ..Part II, etc.) They are often used for "special episodes" or episodes where dramatic things happen and these episodes are often more important to fans. This category is only intended for articles about television episodes, so won't contribute to category clutter. All articles and categories are useless to somebody. Q0 10:33, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • To offer one counter-example, every episode to date of Heroes has ended with "To Be Continued..." yet the entire seaon cannot reasonably be categorized as a single multi-part episode. Delete per nom. Otto4711 15:48, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result of the debate was merge. the wub "?!" 00:14, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Merge into Category:American entrepreneurs. Note that we already decided against categorizing American businesspeople by ethnicity. My reasoning is the same as before, either ethnicity is relevent or it isn't. -- Prove It (talk) 05:08, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Lists of shows by Joss Whedon

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The result of the debate was delete. --RobertGtalk 09:35, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Propose renaming Category:Lists of shows by Joss Whedon to Category:Joss Whedon productions
Nominator's Rationale: Rename, Either rename it Category:Joss Whedon or Category:Joss Whedon productions or delete it. My main problem is the "list of" bit. And speedy, too? ~ZytheTalk to me! 01:05, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Members and associates of the U.S. National Academy of Engineering

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The result of the discussion was: :Propose renaming Category:Members and associates of the U.S. National Academy of Engineering to Category:Members and associates of the United States National Academy of Engineering
Nominator's Rationale: Rename, US→United States. Dr.K. 00:15, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Founding members of the U.S. National Academy of Engineering

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The result of the discussion was: :Propose renaming Category:Founding members of the U.S. National Academy of Engineering to Category:Founding members of the United States National Academy of Engineering
Nominator's Rationale: Rename, US→United States. Dr.K. 00:11, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Fictional characters with Electronic data transception

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The result of the discussion was: delete (already emptied).--Mike Selinker 19:20, 4 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Fictional characters with Electronic data transception ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Delete, This category only holds one article, Heroes (TV series) character Hana Gitelman. The same article is already part of the more established Category:Fictional technopaths. fmmarianicolon


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