The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect/merge to Todd Friel. Please add anything useable to the main article. Black Kite 17:32, 20 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wretched with Todd Friel (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

Does not meet WP:NOTE, as does not cite any sources independent of subject. At time of nomination only references were to the program's own website, that of its parent network, and that of its predecessor series. I am also nominating related article Todd Friel for deletion. Hrafn^Talk_Stalk 05:21, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete NN. ILovePlankton (talk) 05:25, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep as a notable nationally broadcasted television and radio program (will you also be AfDing Hannity's America, The Price Is Right, Arthur, etc?). Merge and Redirect to Todd Friel, see below -- American Eagle (talk) 05:31, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: your claim that this obscure program is "notable" is unsubstantiated, and thus without value. Your WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS parenthetical is likewise of no value. Hrafn^Talk_Stalk 06:07, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete No evidence of notability per guidelines. Sources are all to show itself. ChildofMidnight (talk) 06:56, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge Probably worth including some of the information in the other article. ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:41, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Radio-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 09:08, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 09:08, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete not notable. Lacks reliable 3rd party references.--Rtphokie (talk) 15:20, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment - as an alternative, this article should probably be merged into its own section on Todd Friel, which is more appropriate, and then redirected to it. I'd be happy to do so later. -- American Eagle (talk) 19:11, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Given that that article likewise contains no "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject", I do not see how this offers any improvement. Hrafn^Talk_Stalk 19:33, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's not the point. Articles with good sources doesn't make it notable. If ABC News had a report on a dog that saved a girl from falling, even if it has good ABC sources, it doesn't make it notable. This would, facts and information do, sources prove the facts. -- American Eagle (talk) 20:00, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to satisfy the inclusion criteria for a stand-alone article." That is the point. Your ABC News report example is not "significant coverage", so is beside the point. Hrafn^Talk_Stalk 22:21, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Notice the end of it, "...for a stand-alone article." I think this (Wretched) is perhaps a weak delete, as the show is not yet nationally known. Friel, on the other hand, is well-known as a comedian and Christian in many works. Wretched is mostly notable for being a work of Friel, so generally should be merged and redirected to it, probably as a section. -- American Eagle (talk) 23:13, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete: lacks reliable and verifiable 3rd references, per WP:NOTE. JamesBurns (talk) 00:09, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge into Todd Friel - but only if that article survives its own deletion discussion. If it's deleted, then there's nowhere useful to merge this content, so delete it as well. Terraxos (talk) 23:10, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge or delete - Either if the Todd Friel article gets kept, or if the article is deleted, respectively. — neuro^(talk) 03:21, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge to Todd Friel; if that article is deleted merge to FamilyNet. DHowell (talk) 02:13, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.