The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was speedy keep.  — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:59, 4 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sarkis Torosyan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Does not meet WP:MILPEOPLE criteria. (Although he boasts to have sunk "the first warship by artillery fire" in Gallipoli defence, that claim is reported by his own memoirs and only re-reported by other sources with reference to his own claim.) On the other hand, Google Books searches bring several references to "Sarkis Torosyan" but looks like not much is about this one. E4024 (talk) 22:39, 1 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: False positives aside, the article's current sourcing seems indicative that this person "received significant coverage in multiple verifiable independent, reliable sources." Even his own memoirs were edited by someone else. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 22:52, 1 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep Yet another bad faith deletion proposal by E4024 which adds to the now dozens of Armenian/Greek articles he has tried to delete. The article has made it clear that it is according to his memoirs that he sunk the first British warship. He was decorated not only by Ottoman forces, but by French and English military forces as well. Turkish historians have tried to claim that his memoirs were a sham and in fact, some even tried to state that Sarkis Torosyan never even existed (his family members have been found). I believe the nature of this deletion proposal is no different. Please see the deletion proposals of Miran Pastourma and Hovnatanyan family for more details. There are might I add important sources of information regarding his merit and accreditation as an Ottoman captain during the Dardanelles Campaign. War minister Enver Pasha issued a edict that awarded him a medal stating:

Kayseri Sancağı Everek kazasından Ohan oğlu Serkis Torosyan. Kolordu 21, Fırka 46 Sahra Topçu Alayı Tarassud Zâbiti ve Tabur Kumandan Vekili / [Doğum] 307

Romanya toprağının işgali kararı üzerine taarruz eden müttefik ordularımıza iltihâkı için tayin olunan 51. Fırka olup mezkûr fırka Sahra Topçu Alayı 1. Tabur Kumandanlığı’na tayin olunan kolordumuzun 46. fırka sahra topçu alayının gözlem subayı Yüzbaşı Serkis Bey mezkûr Romanya cephesinin harp meydanında cesaret ve fedâkârâne harp ederek, [...] yaralandığı halde tekrar vazifesi başında bulunarak [...] müttefik ordularımızın ileri doğru taarruz hareketlerine kolaylık göstermiş olduğundan Alamanya, Avusturya ve Bulgar hükümetlerinin harp madalyasına nâil edilmiş olmakla keza Osmanlı Devleti harp madalyasından ‘Osmaniye’ nişanına da nâil olmuş olmakla işbu tasdikname [kendisine] verildi.

28 Mayıs 333 [28 Mayıs 1917]

And heres another decree of "thanks" to Sarkis Torosyan from the War Ministry of the Ottoman Empire:

- Osmanlı Ordu-yu Hümâyunu Başkumandanlığı Vekâleti

- Kayseri Sancağı Everek Kazasından Topçu Yüzbaşısı Ohan oğlu Serkis Torosyan - Doğum 307 [1891-1892]

Ordumuzun ağır topçu 6. Alay batarya kumandanlarımızdan Yüzbaşı Serkis Bey Çanakkale harbi esnasında Ertuğrul tabyasının kumandanı olup 6 ve 12 Şubat 330 [19 ve 25 Şubat 1915] tarihinde boğaza doğru hücum eden düşman harp vapurlarına karşı cesaret ve fedâkârâne harp ederek bir düşman harp vapurunun tahribiyle diğer bir harp vapurunu dahi zedelemiş olduğu ve keza Rumeli Hamidiye tabyasının kumandanlığını üzerine alarak 5 Mart 331 [18 Mart 1915] tarihinde düşman harp vapurlarının boğaza doğru tehdit hücumlarına karşı cesaret ve fedâkârâne harp ederek diğer bir düşman harp vapurunun tahribiyle mumaileyh [adı geçen] mecrûh olduğu [yaralandığı] ve ordu-yu hümâyuna [Osmanlı ordusuna] göstermiş olduğu cesaret ve fedâkârânesinden dolayı ordu namına mumaileyhe [adı geçene] karşı beyan-ı teşekkürle 3 Kanun-ı evvel 330 [16 Aralık 1914] tarihinden itibaren yüzbaşı kıdemine terfii ile Devlet-i Aliyye-i Osmaniye harp madalyasına nâil olmuş olmakla işbu tasdikname mumaileyh yedine [adı geçenin kendisine] i’tâ kılındı [verildi]. 5 Mayıs 331 [18 Mayıs 1915]. Başkumandan Vekili ve

Harbiye Nâzırı Enver

This alone proves his notability. However, I'm sorry that it's in Turkish. In fact, it's in Ottoman Turkish so it might be even more difficult to translate. Proudbolsahye (talk) 23:05, 1 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I kindly request you, once and for all, not to repeat the "bad faith" claim once again. That is a Personal Attack. Simply limit yourself to express your argument about "deleting" or "keeping" the article. That is enough for WP. Do not worry, articles are deleted only on consensus. --E4024 (talk) 23:14, 1 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Almost all the articles you proposed for deletion have been my articles, let alone the fact that you have been trying to ban me indefinitely at least 3 times. Consequently, I have every right to assume bad faith. Also, you should look at yourself in the mirror and not call me a racist or nationalist either and stop poking fun of my mentioning of "honest mistakes". Proudbolsahye (talk) 23:16, 1 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

1. I repeat: Limit yourself to argue on the article. 2. I asked you before to show me where and when I called you a "racist" and I am still waiting to learn. 3. As regards what you call "banning indefinitely" (3 times!) you must be referring to the one SPI case I asked about User: Proudbolsahye. (Which were the other two "user names" for whom I asked SPIs and you take personally? :-) --E4024 (talk) 23:29, 1 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No we will talk about your activity because it gives us an elaborate display as to why this is once again bad faith deletion proposal. Proudbolsahye (talk) 23:34, 1 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep per sourcing IN article and per additional ones provided byUser:Proudbolsahye (thank you). Notability, even if only to the Ottoman Empire, is historically notable enough for us at the English language Wikipedia. We do not require someone born in 1891 and whose feat took place in 1915 in Turkey to be remain in the news or have continued English-language coverage in 2013. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 00:29, 2 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I withdraw my deletion proposal, only because I am not here to receive insults from angry article "owner"s; especially if those insults are added to injury. Someone please close this discussion. If anyone else also thinks the article should be deleted that user may open another one. Thanks. --E4024 (talk) 01:47, 2 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. But more importantly a word to all to try to keep the tone civil and non-personal, and to agf, so as not to lose contributors for the wrong reason.--Epeefleche (talk) 02:11, 2 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep and rename Sarkis Torossian or Torosian, like I had suggested on the talk page some time ago. There are far more hits for Torossian than Torosyan on Google Books. Jackal 03:16, 2 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep by a very substantial margin. - Proudbolsahye have any of these AfD attempts actually succeeded? In ictu oculi (talk) 05:56, 2 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment None of his deletion proposals towards my articles have succeeded. Proudbolsahye (talk) 09:58, 2 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
• Speedy keep - @E4024: please read WP:JUSTDONTLIKEIT again. Takabeg (talk) 10:25, 2 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I kindly ask the admin or experienced user who will close this AfD discussion to please add the lacking "signatures" in the thread before closing it, as I will need "diffs" from this discussion for an SPI request. --E4024 (talk) 12:54, 2 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A bot or editor may do that, but in the interim you can see all of there here. --Epeefleche (talk) 14:31, 2 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.