The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was speedy keep. Nomination withdrawn (non-admin closure) -- Sam Sailor ^Talk! 07:40, 4 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Paco Arespacochaga (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Delete: as non-notable entertainer. Quis separabit? 10:16, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: upon re-review and re-evaluation. Quis separabit? 05:54, 1 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

If you don't stop being WP:POINTY and adding potentially libelous information to articles just because you feel like you "lost" an AfD, I'll be forced to take this to AN/I. You've done the same to another article you nominated under the guise of withdrawing your nomination. I get it that you feel that this is personal, but WP:BLP trumps whatever pettiness happens in the talk pages. Don't take it out on the articles. -- OBSIDIAN†SOUL 09:29, 1 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know what the fuck is going on. The info you deleted and claim is "potentially libelous" was the very first one in a list of what you said were reputable Filipino websites (see below; http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/379067/publicaffairs/tunaynabuhay/paco-arespacochaga-frustrated-actor-aspiring-perfect-father#sthash.ss5PvcZE.dpuf). I added the text "Since his father was a former vice president of a production company, Paco had easy access to famous persons in the local showbiz industry – such as the late Fernando Poe Jr, actor and currently Manila Mayor Joseph Estrada, and star-builder German Moreno. Thus, he had the chance to join various TV commercials and movie auditions." because you led me to believe the website is reliable and I see nothing libelous but maybe that's my "westernized bias". I did change my votes on the Arespacochaga and Bovick AFDs because I was wrong and I updated the article to try to make it better. So, I don't get it. You go on and on and on about my laziness and Western bias, but when I admit I am wrong and change my vote to keep, somehow that's wrong. I don't know what the fuck your problem is and your threat to open an AN/I does not scare me because I haven't done anything wrong that I am aware of. I didn't do it because I was "losing an AFD"; I've lost before by SNOW without changing my own vote. It's too late to withdraw the Arespacochaga and Bovick noms so I changed my own vote. And if you tell me what is libelous about the GMA excerpt which you referred to me perhaps I will have some idea of what your problem is, you passive-aggressive twerp. Quis separabit? 19:23, 1 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep:- sources provided to attest notability.How is he not notable? I don't understand.--Jondel (talk) 05:36, 25 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Speedy keep - numerous secondary sources attest to notability. @Quis separabit?. DO google for sourcing first before nominating something. Read WP:NEXIST. You do not determine notability by the sources used in our articles. You determine it by finding what sources can be used.-- OBSIDIAN†SOUL 13:41, 25 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Uh, excuse me -- I did a google search as I always do, and I did not come up with sufficiently satisfactory results. We all make mistakes, and I am willing to be judged by by track record on AFDs. Quis separabit? 13:43, 25 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/379067/publicaffairs/tunaynabuhay/paco-arespacochaga-frustrated-actor-aspiring-perfect-father

http://www.pep.ph/news/35530/paco-arespacochaga-says-someone-is-out-to-ruin-what-geneva-and-i-had-built-after-our-failed-marriage

http://starcinema.abs-cbn.com/latest-news/thenandnow-paco-and-heaven-arespacochaga

http://www.philstar.com/entertainment/92383/geneva-paco-marriage-annulled-last-funfare-ricardo-f-lo

http://radiorepublic.ph/pacoarespacochaga-wenailedhim/

These are merely from the first 3 pages of the results, and only English-language ones. They are WP:RS, are they not? Slow down a bit and make sure that the articles you're nominating are really non-notable first. I've noticed for example that your nomination rationales reveal nothing about what you've done to ascertain that he really is a "non-notable entertainer". I know you mean well and have done well, but when it comes to notability of non-western celebrities, please do make the extra effort. Wikipedia already has enough problems with systemic bias favoring Anglophone countries. -- OBSIDIAN†SOUL 14:24, 25 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, @Obsidian Soul -- I will acknowledge that I got some useful info from the sources you provided, namely that Paco and his wife, Geneva, "were married on Dec. 16, 1995 in Lake Tahoe, Nevada, when she was already a few months heavy with their one and only child." On January 4, 2011, the marriage was annulled. His [Paco's] father was a former vice president of a production company, Paco had easy access to famous persons in the local showbiz industry – such as the late Fernando Poe Jr, actor and currently Manila Mayor Joseph Estrada, and star-builder German Moreno, thus opening valuable doors for him to begin his career. (I will have to check if any of this is already in the Arespacochaga article.)
The problem for me, anyway, with Filipino sources, even those in English, is that they presuppose and presume an intimate knowledge with the subject and begin, usually not at the beginning but midway through whatever is being reported, making it hard to suss out. If that is "systemic Western bias", so be it.([1]). Quis separabit? 12:43, 26 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The point is that those are reliable sources. They are sites with national coverage, independent of the subject, and do not mention the subject trivially. You don't need to know who he is. All you need to know is if he has received "significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject". That's WP:BASIC of Wikipedia:Notability (people). You can identify which sources are reliable, right? It's admittedly harder, as you can't tell which are legitimate news organizations and which are unreliable tabloids, etc. if you aren't from the Philippines, but Wikipedia should help you sort that. Most major secondary sources in the Philippines have their own articles in Wikipedia. And American websites also do that when it comes to your celebrities. The difference is that in their cases, you already know who they are. It's the same here. That should have already clued you in that the subject is notable enough that they don't need an introduction anymore every time their name is mentioned in articles. -- OBSIDIAN†SOUL 00:48, 27 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

"It's admittedly harder, as you can't tell which are legitimate news organizations and which are unreliable tabloids, etc. if you aren't from the Philippines..." So true. Salamat po, @Obsidian Soul. Quis separabit? 12:54, 29 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

*Keep-Just to make sure. I have to make sure since this debate is ridiculous.It is evident P.Arespochagaq is notable.--Jondel (talk) 07:51, 26 September 2015 (UTC) [reply]

— Duplicate vote: Jondel (talk • contribs) has already cast a vote above.

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:22, 25 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Philippines-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:22, 25 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Again, "Just to make sure. I have to make sure since this debate is ridiculous.It is evident P.Arespochagaq is notable" -- IS NOT a valid argument or rationale. Thanks for your honesty but it's called "gaming the system". Comments by @Jondel (who has already been warned to stop stalking my AFDs) should be stricken. Quis separabit? 12:43, 26 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for double voting --Jondel (talk) 12:11, 27 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - for Obsidian Soul. Rainbow unicorn (talk) 01:25, 4 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.