The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to Alliance-Union universe. Ryan Postlethwaite^{See the mess I've created or let's have banter} 00:02, 28 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Mazianni (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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This article describes a concept from a work of fiction with only in-universe material, and sourced only to primary sources. I am unable to find any coverage of this in independent reliable sources to establish notability. Whpq (talk) 11:05, 13 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment. I'm the article creator. The Mazianni are a major element in five of Cherryh's novels (and a board game). It's my understanding (though I could be wrong) that common significant elements in major works of fiction qualify for articles. Alternatively, I wouldn't object to a merge and redirect to Alliance-Union universe. Clarityfiend (talk) 11:22, 13 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reply - There is no specific notability guidelines for fictional elements. The closest we have is probably the essay, WP:FICTION, and the manual of style entry for fiction, MOS:FICTION, so the applicable notability criteria would fall back to WP:GNG. I wouldn't object to a merge, but I do note that the target article for the merge is rather short on sourcing too. -- Whpq (talk) 13:13, 13 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. What about inherited notability? WP:INHERITED states that while "notability of a parent entity or topic ... does not always imply the notability of the subordinate entities ... notability guidelines, for books, films and music, do allow for inherited notability in certain circumstances". The five Cherryh books that the Mazianni feature in, and are common to, are all notable. —Bruce1ee^talk 13:56, 13 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • Reply - I think the key phrase is "certain circumstances". If you refer to WP:BKCRIT, you'll see that point 5 is a form of inherited notability; that is to say that an author is so notable that his entire body of work is deemed notable. Conversely, authors would inherit notability from their works; see point 3 of WP:AUTHOR. I don't see this ficitonal element as being such a special circumstance. -- Whpq (talk) 14:34, 13 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      • Yes, #5 is merely common sense expectation that works from major authors will of course be covered in independent publications. This doesn't magically lift the requirement for these articles to be ultimately based on independent publications (and however unlikely it may seem, if it was established that no external coverage existed on the subject, then an article on a book from a major author could be deleted or at least merged). Beyond that, there is no "magically inherited notability", and WP:GNG states that "no subject is automatically or inherently notable merely because it exists".Folken de Fanel (talk) 16:42, 14 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:37, 13 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

• Maybe a merge into Alliance-Union universe would work best? Bondegezou (talk) 21:37, 13 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, czar · · 22:22, 20 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

• Merge and redirect to Alliance-Union universe. Stuartyeates (talk) 09:24, 27 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.