The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Spartaz ^Humbug! 21:04, 9 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Mario Kleff (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log) • Afd statistics

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This person lacks notability. It is autobiographical. The references are from local Pattaya advertizing sheets Note, nominated for deletion by Rak-Tai (talk · contribs), assisted by me, per request  Chzz  ►  00:35, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Architecture-related deletion discussions. -- Jclemens-public (talk) 01:26, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment SaksitVongaram 10:46, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This person is important to Chonburi's architecture and as such published. References are not advertising sheets. Mario Kleff is nominate for honorary degree in architecture and engineering from Thai Authority members and Pattaya Construction Department. Please help to improve the article instead nominate for deletion.

• Note: See my comment Mario Kleff (talk). SaksitVongaram (talk) 08:20, 1 December 2010 (UTC)— SaksitVongaram (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

• Keep - The article needs some work, esp. diversity of references, but the subject appears to satisfy WP:GNG. Kuguar03 (talk) 05:50, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - Multiple SPAs working in coordination to protect a poorly source article of marginal notability? Forget it, not worth the effort. Kuguar03 (talk) 20:40, 6 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - This article is about a local architect with no notable accomplishments. Part of the article is autobiographical. A look at the history will show that any attempts to question its authorship or notability are speedily removed. รัก-ไทย (talk) 07:31, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see anything like that in the history. The article was only created yesterday.

Also you're generally not supposed to vote on your own nomination. By nominating it you've indicated your position. Kuguar03 (talk) 08:03, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment:

This article's present edit-history is incomplete and now somewhat convoluted but there has been a "Mario Kleff" article since July 2010. This can be seen at the the Talkpage, which has been through some reversions and edits but August 2010 posts remain. (Also see the Talkpage edit history here).

The article was moved from Main to User:MarioKleff at 16:05 on 29 November here.

The article's content then was moved from User:MarioKleff to Main at 16:20 on 29 November. This is the date that now appears as the apparent start date for the the article being discussed in this AfD. Shearonink (talk) 13:59, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment:

This may be well true, however this article today is improved and much better sourced. If you have any comments on particular sections of this article, you are welcome to comment or improve it yourself!

I still don't understand what is wrong with this article? SaksitVongaram (talk) 14:06, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment:

Hello, it's me User:MarioKleff and person the article is about. It's true I did some correction on this article in the past but wasn't the creator. Reason for my edits that time because information were incorrect or incomplete. I did not know that this not is allowed?! If somebody create an article such as Ulrich Kaiser did about me...it must be alright to do some correction on this in order to appear properly. However, at Dec 29 I sent email to Wikipedia Community in order to help and to remove this article to my account. It seems that SaksitVongaram and others did a much better job on this and post it new. Now, what is the problem here? Please explain I am open to get your comments otherwise all content of the current article is correct post. MarioKleff (talk) 15:29, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - The article is a portrait of an building designer, automotive designer and artist, not about a local architect! After my research this article is proper sourced and links to major media in Chonburi region and Pattaya must accepted as reliable source. This article is linked to other pages and as such accepted. This also is reliable source.

It seems personal critics and feel is reason for nominate to deletion.

I would suggest helping on improvement and style of this article. NittayaWongsin (talk) 08:40, 1 December 2010 (UTC)— NittayaWongsin (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

• Keep - I just added a few more information on this article by SaksitVongaram. Again sorry for did not log-in. Ptty (talk) 13:51, 1 December 2010 (UTC)— Ptty (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
  • No one is questioning the career of this architect. The question is that there is no evidence of notability, the criteriun for inclusion. รัก-ไทย (talk) 17:29, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment - It seems there are multiple issues here, including likely sock-puppetry. This should probably be taken to WP:ANI. Kuguar03 (talk) 18:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• What is the Wikipedia about when a person who has done some outstanding things to the public is nominate to deletion? The man has received honoree as a multi-talented designer from appreciate people and communities, and as such published in media Germany and Thailand... I recommend first to do a better research before questioning the Qualification as Architect

Again, help to structure and fill this article with further information. I also believe this man has the right to be mentioned on further Wikipedia pages such as "Pattaya" and "Chonburi" NittayaWongsin (talk) 19:38, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - The article is not about a local architect! Leszek Jańczuk (talk) 07:07, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Most people take pride in their work and in their point of view. Egos can easily get hurt. Do not label or personally attack people or their edits. Wikipedia encourages a positive online community: people make mistakes. Give yourself a try. I did some work on this article based on reliable and given sources.

• Keep - The article is not about a local architect, and yet not autobiographically! Luzferni (talk) 13:34, 2 December 2010 (UTC)— Luzferni (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
• Weak keep IF AND ONLY IF it is stubbed and rebuilt on sounder foundations - this is a blatant vanity piece full of unsourced assertions and meaningless fluff. However: underlying the fluff may be a marginally notable individual. It needs sound sourcing, encyclopedic language, etc. --Orange Mike | Talk 17:19, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: The article under discussion here has been flagged for {{rescue}} by the Article Rescue Squadron. SnottyWong ^gossip 04:14, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete: no indication that the topic meets WP:CREATIVE. Sources cited in the article are mainly (totally?) WP:SELFPUB. Little-to-no coverage in reliable third-party sources. Hrafn^Talk_Stalk^(P) 15:42, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete an outrageously promotional article, with no sources for notability and little likelihood of finding any, for it does not seem any of the work is actually notable. He is not in fact an architect even--see building designer for the difference. If kept, suitable for stubbification. DGG ( talk ) 00:21, 6 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

*Keep And get someone who speaks Thai to search for his name and his buildings in Thailand, it surely mentioned. The article says he created the Memorial for His Majesty King Bhumibol Adulyadej of Thailand. That is an important accomplishment, it a national monument. That and his other accomplishments make him notable. Do any media sources review these buildings or give mention to the unique architecture design of any part of them? Does this guy have an official website which perhaps links to coverage might be found? An architect is notable if their work is a national monument for a country. Dream Focus 16:19, 7 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• WP:RS for any of these claims? www.slideshare.net does not count. Hrafn^Talk_Stalk^(P) 16:28, 7 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• I have already researched him in Thai (hence my nomination). Besides a few condos which his staff designed, I find nothing notable about him in this country. The magazines in which he is mentioned are English publications printed for the local foreign community in Pattaya and circulated locally to sell condos. The condos for which he takes credit are rather common local structures which I have personally seen. According to his account, the memorial for the king is a design which he designed on his own, which will no doubt never be built, and of which the king or his staff have no knowledge. Such a memorial, if built, would surely be designed by a famous Thai architect, not a low-level German designer. รัก-ไทย (talk) 19:08, 7 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Since you searched in Thai and found nothing, and the memorial isn't an official existing monument, then forget what I said. This should be Deleted Dream Focus 00:00, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• I have been researching this asserted 'memorial' (for His Majesty King Bhumibol Adulyadej) as well as the asserted 'architecture landmark for Pattaya' and have been unable to find any mention of either project in sources that are not directly connected with Mr. Kleff - the memorial is not ever mentioned as a 'national monument'. Regarding the claims of his 'star architect' status I can find no international reviews or discussions of Mr. Kleff's endeavours. A single mention of his copying of some of the content of the Book of Kells is found in the 1996 "Forum book art, Issue 20" as seen here. Shearonink (talk) 19:26, 7 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete: Subject of article does not appear to fulfill the general Notability guidelines and does not fulfill the guidelines for creative professionals. The only mentions found of subject's endeavours (other than his copying of some folios from the Book of Kells in the 1990s) are in local Pattaya newspapers/magazines. Shearonink (talk) 19:44, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.