The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was NO CONSENSUS. -Splash - tk 22:53, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

List of Tarkhans (Sikh) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Lists are meant to be navigational aids, yet other than the founders mentioned in the lead, there are no links to any articles. Instead what we have is a magnet for people to add their relatives or colleagues or people they admire. This is non-encyclopaedic and should be deleted. Biker Biker (talk) 09:27, 30 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Lists do not have to be navigational aids: see WP:L#Types of lists and WP:CSC. You can have a list where everything is non-notable, or a list that's a well-defined set of things even if they don't all have articles. (I'm not voting keep because I don't know enough about the topic.) --Colapeninsula (talk) 10:51, 1 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ethnic groups-related deletion discussions. — Frankie (talk) 19:26, 1 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. — Frankie (talk) 19:26, 1 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions. — Frankie (talk) 19:26, 1 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong delete. Of no encyclopaedic value at all. Span (talk) 20:58, 1 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect to Tarkhan (Punjab). --Anbu121 (talk me) 21:46, 2 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Conditional keep. I will assume good faith about this nomination, and therefore say that the specified grounds for it are one of the worst cases of not doing WP:BEFORE that I can remember. While lists often need not be navigational aids, this is one that almost certainly should be - but, of the names without links currently in the article, three are clearly meant to refer to Zail Singh, Ajay Devgn and Sobha Singh (painter), and a fourth probably to Joginder Singh (rally driver). Moreover, several (though apparently by no means all) of the names the nominator removed from the article before nominating it also have Wikipedia articles - indeed, in a couple of cases, they were actually given as references. No good as references, of course, but they would be perfectly good wikilinks. The article could therefore be converted into a list of notable individuals with very little difficulty. The reason my keep is conditional is that currently there is no clearly cited evidence either in this article or in most of the articles on the listed individuals that the people concerned are (or were) indeed Tarkhans (often it doesn't seem even to be mentioned). However, in each case I have looked at, the claim that they are (were) Tarkhans is at least plausible, and I think it very likely that this will be verifiable for enough of them to make the list keepable. PWilkinson (talk) 22:13, 5 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Mr. Stradivarius ^{(have a chat)} 07:58, 8 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep although being a list hater , there are lot of lists like below having no logic or providing any help but are there e.g list of iyers , list of brahmins Shrikanthv (talk) 13:40, 9 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong Delete This is non-encyclopaedic. Individuals (if wp:notable ) have their own articles. It should be deleted.--144.160.130.16 (talk) 16:42, 9 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep on the same basis as we keep similar lists for notable people in other groups. Certainly the individuals should have their same articles, but the list is also appropriate. No reason has been given why this should be different than other groups. DGG ( talk ) 04:38, 15 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The reason is that the article does not have any references to establish that the people listed are tarkhans and hence is a violation of WP:BLPCAT --Anbu121 (talk me) 05:19, 15 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

are you saying they are not members of this group, or that it have not yet been shown . if the later, the solution is to write the individual articles showing it, DGG ( talk ) 07:20, 15 October 2012 (UTC) '[reply]

I am saying that you or I or anyone for that matter cannot verify that they are members of the group unless a reliable source says so. In addition to that, for living people in that list, self-identification is necessary as per WP:BLPCAT. Given the controversial issues we are facing about Indian caste articles (The issues went so complex that Arbcom provided a discretionary sanction), having information about caste without proper references will not improve wikipedia in any way.--Anbu121 (talk me) 07:39, 15 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. This article serves no purpose. It would be much better to add notable persons of that tribe to the parent article (Tarkhan (Punjab)). -- P 1 9 9  ✉ 15:22, 16 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. The criteria for inclusion are sufficiently narrow and clear. Moreover, I think sourcing could be found that treats Tarkhans as a group, e.g. this book, which is required under WP:LISTN. People arguing delete above have not argued that Tarkhans are non-notable as a group, which is the threshold for list notability per WP:LISTN: "A list topic is considered notable if it has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources, per the above guidelines; notable list topics are appropriate for a stand-alone list." Some people for deletion have also used the fact that people on the list do not have Wikipedia articles as a basis for removal. This is not a valid argument under WP:LISTN: "Because the group or set is notable, the individual items in the list do not need to be independently notable, although editors may, at their discretion, choose to limit large lists by only including entries for independently notable items or those with Wikipedia articles." In any event, it appears that some of the people on the list are notable and have articles but simply were not wikilinked. Hence in view of the fact that secondary reliable sources could establish the Tarkhans as a group, it meets WP:LISTN and WP:GNG and should be kept. --Batard0 (talk) 05:45, 19 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Context This article was created by a known vandal. They operate many socks and are currently blocked. Span (talk) 11:52, 19 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge to Tarkhan (Punjab). Forget other issues, this list doesn't even passes the stand-alone list criteria. ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛ ^{Talk Email} 11:57, 20 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, BusterD (talk) 04:37, 21 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MBisanz ^talk 00:21, 29 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.