The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was No consensus, default to keep. The sources aren't very good quality and many are just mirrors. There's clearly no consensus to delete though, and the default outcome is keep. Stifle (talk) 08:54, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Copper Island (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

The location name is not in use officially. I've lived in the Upper Peninsula for 28 years and never heard of that area being called anything other than the Keweenaw Peninsula or the generic Copper Country. The article contains only one reference which describes the routing of only one of the three highways in the area. A Google search shows this article as number 1 with the other mentions to a record company in Wales, an island in Russia, an island in British Columbia and an archeological site in Cyprus. In fact most of the Google hits are related to the island in BC. The only related mention is a ski race held south of the area claimed as the island on the "mainland". The only assertion of notability is the unreferenced mention of the area once being called the name in Finnish, which isn't verified/referenced. Imzadi1979 (talk) 20:52, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. If you've never heard it being called "Copper Island," I'm amazed. Haven't you ever heard of the Copper Island Classic hockey game between Hancock and Calumet, the newspaper, any of it? --Daniel C. Boyer (talk) 14:16, 28 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Original research, no real sources. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP)} 21:02, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Michigan-related deletion discussions. —Imzadi1979 (talk) 21:04, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Proposed deletion NO! First, let me say that this is a bad idea. It is a recognized geographic descriptor for a unique part of the U.S. Take a look at this. Michigan's Unique Islands. I think if you google ";Copper Island' Michigan" you'll find plenty of citations and links. I note also that the Clarke Historical Library page that is linked in the Keweenaw County article looks like it has some books that would likely cover this subject. Here is another source: http://www.keweenawtrails.com/events/chassell/index.htm

Unfortunately, I am in the middle of a project, but putting in some line cites, etc. should be not that difficult. Hope somebody can do something to appease the wiki-gods. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 21:06, 24 September 2008 (UTC) Stan[reply]

• • Please reference where this name is "recognized" as a geographic descriptor for the area. The state of Michigan and the USGS don't call it this. Imzadi1979 (talk) 21:16, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Copper-Island I'll be back with more. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 21:17, 24 September 2008 (UTC) Stan[reply]
• http://www.keweenawtrails.com/events/chassell/ 7&6=thirteen (talk) 21:19, 24 September 2008 (UTC) Stan[reply]

That link is to a copy of this article, not a unique source. Imzadi1979 (talk) 21:20, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• http://encyclopedia.kids.net.au/page/co/Copper_Island 7&6=thirteen (talk) 21:21, 24 September 2008 (UTC) Stan[reply]
• http://www.fact-archive.com/encyclopedia/Copper_Island 7&6=thirteen (talk) 21:22, 24 September 2008 (UTC) Stan[reply]
• https://www.h-net.org/announce/show.cgi?ID=153515 7&6=thirteen (talk) 21:24, 24 September 2008 (UTC) Stan[reply]
• Michigan Technical University, Kupperisian "Copper Island". Those ought to satisfy you that this is "recognized." As I indicated< I've got other fish to fry, so I can't follow the google trail indefinitely. Others may choose to, however. All I did was google the phrase "'Copper Island'Michigan", and you can do it too.7&6=thirteen (talk) 21:29, 24 September 2008 (UTC) Stan[reply]

(repeated edit conflicts)

Three of those links are copies of this article, not a unique source. The fourth is the previously mentioned race which is held on the "mainland" not the "island". We don't have an article Queen City of the North even though that was once used to describe Marquette, Michigan. Nothing you've presented points to the a neutral, verifiable, reliable source that this name is in fact in common usage. The lecture summary on that last link only uses it in the name. The announcement even calls the area Michigan's Copper Country. None of these links are in fact referenced in the article. The MTU link only references the once-applied Finnish name. Once again, none of this shows that the area is called that today by the locals. Imzadi1979 (talk) 21:32, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Here is a current one out of the Houghton Mining Gazette of Augus 20, 2008. http://www.mininggazette.com/page/content.detail/id/501559.html?nav=5006 7&6=thirteen (talk) 21:44, 24 September 2008 (UTC) Stan[reply]

[https://www.h-net.org/announce/show.cgi?ID=153515 New York Univeristy, From the Emerald Islle tto the Copper Isle.' 7&6=thirteen (talk) 21:47, 24 September 2008 (UTC) Stan[reply]

Copper Island Cross Country Ski Club. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 21:49, 24 September 2008 (UTC) Stan[reply]

Michigan Association of Recreational Vehicles. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 21:54, 24 September 2008 (UTC) Stan[reply]

History of the Finns in Americxa.

Copper Island Printing, Calumet, Michigan. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 21:58, 24 September 2008 (UTC) Stan[reply]

Reference to the Copper Island Sentinel, the local paper. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 22:01, 24 September 2008 (UTC) Stan[reply]

Finish names, Finish geneology.

• • General reserach on Copper Island, its origins, etc.7&6=thirteen (talk) 22:06, 24 September 2008 (UTC) Stan[reply]

7&6, you keep adding links which are copies of the Wikipedia article -- they're automatically generated copies from sites who like to copy/backup wikipedia. They are not useful as sources. -- dcclark (talk) 22:22, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I would agree that this article has had an important effect on other sources, which just lift the article, and then don't give it as a source (only rarely). I googled "'Copper Island News' Michigan" and when I had it show me all the sources, there were three pages (24 or 30? didn't count) (I had to tell it to show me "similar" pages to get that number) that bleated back the article, and would not be considered to be independent sources. However, putting a more positive spin on this, this article is a sourced of information for a lot of other websites. 23:00, 24 September 2008 (UTC) Stan

[^[1] Keewenaw Water Trail, "Circumnavigation of the Copper Island"] is a current usage by the Keewenaw Tourist & Convention Bureau, and plainly is not a quote or offshoot of the Wikipedia article. I can put together these sources into the article, I just can't do it today or tomorrow. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 23:07, 24 September 2008 (UTC) Stan[reply]

Hancock astronomy article mentions "Copper Island" 7&6=thirteen (talk) 23:12, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

[http://habitant.org/houghton/fcgenealogy.htm French Canadian Geneological Research sources} concerning Hancock County, mentions "Copper Island" and also document the publication dates of one of the newspapers that were so named. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 23:15, 24 September 2008 (UTC) Stan[reply]

Island Behavioral Health in Hancock, Michigan.7&6=thirteen (talk) 00:16, 25 September 2008 (UTC) Stan[reply]

Stan -- no, there are many sites out there which duplicate Wikipedia whole cloth. The presence of the Copper Island article on them means nothing: it was on Wikipedia at the time that their bot downloaded everything here, and so it's on their site as well. -- dcclark (talk) 23:04, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep or Merge to Copper Country. Also try this (more appropriate) google search. Links include several businesses currently using the name as part of their business, the "Copper Island Classic" race (as mentioned in the article), a defunct newspaper, etc. It's certainly not a widespread name, but in the area it is used. It's very silly to suggest that just because the area containing Copper Island is more commonly called the Copper Country, that the name isn't valid. Similarly, it doesn't matter that the Copper Island Classic is held on the mainland -- it's a proper use of the name. The worst that should be done to the article is to merge the description into copper country, which is a superset of Copper Island. -- dcclark (talk) 21:38, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep A WP:RS is in the article showing the origins of the name; and Google searches ([1], [2]) turn up the name used for businesses, ski clubs, and on tourism sites about the area - so there appears to be adequate material to show that the term is in regional usage. The nom not having heard it himself is an odd reverse-type WP:OR to justify an AfD. Admittedly the use isn't widespread, but it is in use within the region. I agree that, worse case a merge and redirect to copper country may be reasonable; but I feel there's enough here to justify an encyclopedic entry for this region. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 22:05, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment — at the time I found the article, that source wasn't there. Since this article is Copper Island and not Copper Island, Michigan I googled the article's title and found far more references to an island in British Columbia that actually carries the name on the map. I've never seen this name on a map and the only hits I found for it were similar to many of 7&6's links which are copies of Wikipedia content and not separate articles. The only business name that came up was a printing place with a d/b/a for another name. At the very least, the article needs to be renamed since it is not the only "Copper Island", and it should be merged into the Copper Country article, IMHO. Imzadi1979 (talk) 22:25, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

How about moving it to Copper Island, Michigan? However, there is already a very clear otheruses template at the top of the article which tells you that it's about the region in Michigan. -- dcclark (talk) 22:30, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This may be an issue to bring up on the article talk page. I would support renaming it to Copper Island, Michigan, then move the existing disambiguation page to Copper Island. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 15:11, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep — Copper Island is in fact the correct name according to...

⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 22:59, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's yet another copy of the original WP article. Just how many sites out there copy WP like this? Imzadi1979 (talk) 23:05, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) Look closely at the mention in other sites. The one you point to shows at the bottom "This article ... uses material from the Wikipedia article 'Copper Island'." So, it's a circular reference - an article cannot be justified by something that uses that same article as a reference. I agree with keeping, but for other reasons given above. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 23:07, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, both of you are right...I didn't see the reference to WP and thought it different enough to be original. An earlier version didn't occur to me. I was wrong...sorry for that.⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 23:39, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Rather than burden this discussion with more facts and references (I did find documentation on the second newspaper, and also of a novel that is entitled "Race to Copper Island") and that's all in the article, are will be in the next few days. I would request that you not be precipitate or o'erhasty in your decision. Best regards. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 00:30, 25 September 2008 (UTC) Stan[reply]

This is NOW better sourced and linked than a lot of Wikipedia articles that aren't up for deletion. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 16:49, 25 September 2008 (UTC) Stan[reply]

I would respectfully suggest that you have made us improve the article and accomplished a great deal in that the article is niow in compliance with Wiki standards. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 16:01, 28 September 2008 (UTC) Stan[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.