The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus‎. Sandstein 16:21, 9 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Charles Grigsby (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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Was redirected to American Idol (season 2)#Top 12 finalists by User:Bgsu98, then restored by User:Jpcase with the rationale: "Has released multiple albums since he was on Idol. I'm not sure that redirecting this is the correct course."

The redirect was restored by User:Onel5969, with the rationale: "Restore redirect - not enough in-depth coverage to show that they pass WP:GNG".

The article was then restored by User:Aspects with the rationale: "rv redirect that was already contested and per WP:BRD, there should be a WP:MERGE discussion or an WP:AFD."

The previous AfD was closed on largely procedural grounds, due to a rapid-fire nomination of many other American Idol contestants at the same time. The only genuine keep rationale offered was due to a (now inactive) WikiProjects own guideline which never reached the status of an actual notability guideline. Mako001 (C)  (T)  🇺🇦 00:49, 18 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Mako001 (C)  (T)  🇺🇦 00:49, 18 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Absolutely fails WP:NSINGER. Should be, at the very least, redirected to American Idol (season 2)#Top 12 finalists, which is what I tried to do originally. Additionally, I just took another look at the article, and there is no end of unsourced BLP statements. Bgsu98 (Talk) 00:56, 18 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect - not enough in-depth coverage from independent, reliable, secondary sources to pass WP:GNG.Onel5969 ^{TT me} 00:59, 18 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak Keep: I'm generally in favor of keeping articles about Idol top 12 finalists if they have gone on to release music after the series, as Grigsby has done. Grigsby does not seem to have maintained a great deal of notability in the years since he was on Idol, but he very easily passes the WP:GNG and, by extension, also passes WP:NSINGER on the basis of criteria #1. While the current version of the article does not demonstrate significant coverage, a simple Google or ProQuest search shows that numerous news articles from reliable sources have covered Grigsby (I'm seeing well over 150 on ProQuest, and there are undoubtedly many more that are not included on ProQuest). --Jpcase (talk) 02:00, 18 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ohio-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 08:23, 18 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. To participants, please don't just assert sources exist and point to internet search results but provide links in the AFD discussion so that they can be verified as helping provide SIGCOV.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 00:41, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• (update based on below: Keep) Comment. Here's some coverage, that while related to the show is indeed about the subject:
  • "During his days on the show, Grigsby's style could be defined by two simple concepts: a hat on the head, and the color blue on the body. "He's basically a hat person and he'll wear any kind," says stylist Siggins. "We totally embraced it," adds Banowetz, who says Grigsby's "minimal hair" helped with the hats. "He looked great in them." ... followed by a quote from subject.

    - via DRESS YOU UP. People, 00937673, May2003 Extra, Vol. 59, Issue 17

  • "Fourteen million viewers of Fox's American Idol who called in decided to bounce Charles Grigsby from the competition Wednesday night. Grigsby, 24, a part-time supermarket clerk from Oberlin, Ohio, had sung You Can't Win from The Wiz on Tuesday's movie-themed performances.

    - via 'Idol' bumps Grigsby By: Kurt Jensen, USA Today, MAR 20, 2003

—siroχo 07:35, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 00:37, 2 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources. The subject passes Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria, which says:

  People are presumed notable if they have received significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject.

  • If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability; trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not usually sufficient to establish notability.

  Sources
  1. Heldenfels, R.D. (2003-04-08). "'Idol' Contestant Has No Regrets - 24-Year-Old Oberlin Man Who Was Voted off Show Is Thankful for TV Exposure and Business Contacts". Akron Beacon Journal. Archived from the original on 2023-07-09. Retrieved 2023-07-09.

     The article notes: "Charles Grigsby didn't want to audition for American Idol. Now he's very glad his friends made him do it. After all, the 24-year-old Oberlin resident could still be working in a grocery store and making demonstration recordings with friends, hoping for a big break. Instead, he got TV exposure and went farther than most contenders in the talent competition, which continues tonight at 8 on Fox. He expects to sing the national anthem at an Indians game in May. On Monday, he was calling from New York City, where he was taking part in a tour of shopping malls with other American Idol contestants."

  2. Macias, Chris (2004-08-24). "A few votes short of an 'Idol' - Charles Grigsby joins talent-show finalists on tour". The Sacramento Bee. Archived from the original on 2023-07-09. Retrieved 2023-07-09.

     The article notes: " Now that he's a member of the exclusive "American Idol" finalists club, Grigsby gets to be showcased again. He's part of the American Idols Live! tour, which will play to screaming, Glow Stick-waving fans at Arco Arena on Thursday. "

  3. Knific, Melissa (2003-07-11). "Ohioan Living Dream Through Tour". The Columbus Dispatch. Archived from the original on 2023-07-09. Retrieved 2023-07-09.

     The article notes: "After the tour, Grigsby, who says he eats, sleeps and breathes music, will continue his pursuit of a career in music. He also has considered acting. Since the second season of Idol began, he's collected names of producers, managers, directors and actors. He hopes the tour will allow him to continue networking. Growing up in a small town didn't keep Grigsby from seeking opportunities."

  4. Washington, Julie E. (2003-04-01). "Life after 'Idol' far from idle". The Plain Dealer. Archived from the original on 2023-07-09. Retrieved 2023-07-09.

     The article notes: "Charles, who is 24 and lives in Oberlin, was the second Idol voted off the Top 12 island on March 19. His voice had bothered him all week, so he picked what he thought would be an easy song, "You Can't Win," sung by Michael Jackson in "The Wiz." ... But Charles passed through to the next phase of the competition, which brought with it a whirlwind of promotional fun - a Coke commercial, appearances on "The Today Show," "Access Hollywood," "Entertainment Tonight" and "Inside Edition," plus an interview with People magazine."

  5. Sheats-Johnson, Jamie (2003-08-08). "American Idols Live". The Charlotte Observer. Archived from the original on 2023-07-09. Retrieved 2023-07-09.

     The article notes: "Charles Grigsby, 24: Grigsby, the youngest of seven children, is a self-taught singer who's own American idol is Stevie Wonder."

  6. Gatta, John (2009-11-06). "Boss at The Q, American Idols in Lorain". The Morning Journal. Archived from the original on 2023-07-09. Retrieved 2023-07-09.

     The article notes: "Oberlin native Charles Grigsby and Shaker Heights native Scott Savol will appear at the event today along with the group, the Croonerz. Since his days on Idol, Grigsby released a self-titled album, ..."

  7. Maglio, Lou (2016-02-17). "Charles Grigsby: Journey from Northeast Ohio to American Idol". WJW. Archived from the original on 2023-07-09. Retrieved 2023-07-09.

     The article notes: "He has performed locally and around the world since leaving Idol. He currently lives in Chicago where he joined a church and was baptized. Grigsby says “knowing the Lord” has made him a better person."

  8. Margolis, Kim (2010-05-05). "Ohio's former 'American Idol' hopefuls". Dayton Daily News. Archived from the original on 2023-07-09. Retrieved 2023-07-09 – via Newspapers.com.

     The article notes: "Charles Grigsby: Was a Top 12 finalist in Season 2. Performed on air in 2003. Resident of Oberlin, in northern Ohio. Worked at a grocery store at the time of his audition. Had a self-titled release, “Charles Grigsby," in 2005."

  9. Compton, Josette (2003-04-16). "Charles Grigsby Isn't the 'American Idol,' but He Is a Star". Call and Post. ProQuest 238517727.

     The article notes: " Charlie Grigsby, the humble 24-year-old singer from Oberlin, was one of 12 finalists on the much-watched television show, "American Idol 2," which has become more famous than it's season premiere last summer. ... Now that Grigsby is no longer a part of the American Idol entourage, he and Vanessa Olivarez, along with four finalists from last year, will enjoy a mini-concert tour sponsored by Coca-Cola starting Friday in New York. ... Like many driven Clevelanders who have become national celebrities, Grigsby says that he also understands that he must leave the Midwest to make his dreams come true. Appearing on NBC's "Today" and CNN is just the beginning of his journey to the top."

  There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Charles Grigsby to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".

  Cunard (talk) 09:20, 9 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.