The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge‎ to Torchwood or an appropriate section thereof which can be handled editorially Star Mississippi 15:11, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Cardiff Rift (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:GNG its WP:ALLPLOT and has been tagged for notability for 12 years Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 14:31, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements, Science fiction and fantasy, and Wales. Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 14:31, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment Well, for one, Illuminating Torchwood has a lot to say about the topic at various places, but usually calls it "the Rift" or "the rift" rather than the Cardiff Rift. Daranios (talk) 15:09, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @Daranios Any chance you could add this to the article (and ping me)? There is a receptions section already, but sourced to a meh newspaper so far, and nothing else. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 00:55, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @Piotrus: I've added what I had thought to from Illuminating Torchwood, tough there is some more, as can also be seen in previews of pages not available at Google Books. Daranios (talk) 20:30, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @Daranios Thank you. Weak keep for me considering the current state of the 'reception and analysis' section. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 07:43, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment Collecting further sources, shorter but still relevant are: Once Upon a Time Lord, pp. 129-130, "'You guys and your cute little categories": Torchwood, The Space-Time Rift and Cardiff's Postmodern, Postcolonial and (avowedly) Pansexual Gothic", and very brief but calls it "a key point in the mythology of Doctor Who during the Tenth Doctor era", this web article. Daranios (talk) 07:31, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  That web aticle doenst count for very much. Valnet sources are not great for showing notability. Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 12:36, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @OlifanofmrTennant: I agree, was just listing it for future reference, useable as ScreenRant still counts as "reliable for entertainment-related topics". Might have phrased that better. Being convinced of the notability of the topic based on the other sources, I've gone ahead and added that to the article as low-hanging fruit. Daranios (talk)

• Keep I believe the existing sources together establish notability. While there is currently an imbalance between plot and non-plot in the article, it is also not all plot, as I believe the criticism of the Cardiff Rift being a plot device for lazy writers is relevant despite being presented in a satirical manner. (The Register is considered a reliable source.) And these problems can be solved by normal editing with the listed sources. Daranios (talk) 11:11, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect or merge: This isn't really a separate topic from the fiction itself. I do see some mentions in sources, but not enough to reach WP:SIGCOV. Shooterwalker (talk) 18:25, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:31, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment The non-plot content has been expanded now since the beginning of this AfD. Daranios (talk) 11:27, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect or merge. This is dictionaty-definition fancruft.TheLongTone (talk) 14:22, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• @TheLongTone: WP:Fancruft: "The use of the term ... is not a substitute for a well-reasoned argument based on existing Wikipedia policies." Daranios (talk) 15:16, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Not if I was voting for deletion but its a valid argument for merging of redirecting. The article is fancruft; the topic can be adequately covered in a para elsewhere.TheLongTone (talk) 13:28, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• • Comment Where should this be redirected/merged to? Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 14:58, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Divided between editors arguing to Keep this article and those advocating a Merge or Redirect but who have offered no target article so it would be impossible to carry out their recommendation.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:32, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Keep this article needs a heavy rewrite but I feel there's enough to show notability, especially since there really isn't a viable merge target. Has one ever considered Magneton? Pokelego999 (talk) 13:09, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Merge target What about Wormholes in fiction? Keeping this ludicrous mass of cruft as a standalone article simply because of doubt as to where it should be merge/redirected to is lame beyond belief.13:43, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

• TheLongTone, it's a real and practical concern. XFDcloser can't close a discussion as Redirect or Merge without a target article identified. It just can't be done if that is the consensus opinion. And there has to be agreement on what that target article is. That's how the software works. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:47, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• • Possibly List of Torchwood items? Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 18:15, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Merge target as list of Torchwood items. I'd also support a merge to the main Torchwood series article. Shooterwalker (talk) 18:43, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I beg your pardon, I can see that its a real concernbecause the article is ludicrous.TheLongTone (talk) 14:35, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment - Since the Rift is central to the premise of the show, wouldn't the actual main Torchwood article, where it is already mentioned throughout, be the better location to merge information on it to, rather than a spinout list article? Rorshacma (talk) 15:34, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I'd definitely agree to either Wormholes in fiction or the main Torchwood article if a merge has to be done. The Rift also isn't mentioned at the List article, and isn't really an item per se. Has one ever considered Magneton? Pokelego999 (talk) 16:33, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  The main Torchwood article makes more sense to me. Shooterwalker (talk) 15:58, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Merge with Torchwood: where it is already mentioned, and where it would make a good fit. List of Torchwood items is on the chopping block, and wouldn't give the rift the importance it deserves. Owen× ☎ 13:20, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.