The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. — Cirt (talk) 00:27, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Anti-Cornish sentiment (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Quite frankly, simply non-notable. There's no evidence that the concept of "anti-cornish sentiment" itself has been covered by either mainstream academia or simply multiple reliable sources. The current content shows evidence of offensive statements made towards Cornish individuals (or the Cornish as a group) but no actual coverage of the concept; it's instead simply a mass of synthesis and original research, stitching together individual and unrelated comments made over several centuries, adding a splash of weasle-worded commentary ("many people feel able to..." etc) and hoping that the resulting concoction resembles an actual phenomena rather than simply a series of tenuously connected individual events. I've had some pretty mean things said about me over my life, but creating an article on Anti-Ironholds sentiment, pulling out choice examples and claiming that constitutes a pervading theme of people-being-mean-to-Ironholds does not an encyclopedia topic make. Ironholds (talk) 19:35, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Per above really. The part about Giles Coren on the article could be transferred to the aforementioned man's article possibly.(If anything an article on Anti-English Sentiment in Cornwall should be made about the paranoid delusion some (And a very small some) Cornish have that the English are all out to get them, and the ramblings of an Already racist Journalist is no justification for this). --Τασουλα (Shalom!) (talk) 19:56, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete About as clear a case of original research as one can get. Just to add to the above that the Anglo-Saxons and people in the 17thC pretty much said this about everyone. Logically we would need articles about anti-Norfolk sentiment, anti-Yorkshire sentiment, and, who knows, anti-Rutland sentiment. It might be worth a mention of this in the Cornwall article if it were based on reliable secondary sources.--SabreBD (talk) 20:05, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment Let's not forget Anti-Devon Sentiment, Southern Anti-sentiment against the North, ect ect. It's silly. The Cornish have never been singled out. --Τασουλα (Shalom!) (talk) 20:08, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If you have reputable sources for historical and/or contemporary anti-Devon sentiment, then why not create? And a North-South_divide_in_the_United_Kingdom article does exist along with Geography and identity in Wales, North-South_divide_(England). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Govynn (talk • contribs) 20:25, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - Comment: Please now note that the wording about which concerns were raised regarding "weasel wording" has been removed from the text of the article. "I hate the Cornish." by Giles Coren is a very direct expression of Anti-Cornish sentiment, and to simply deny the existence of anti-Cornish sentiment is untenable. Another issue is the ongoing campaign to regognise Cornish people as a national minority. ^[1]

The historical expression of anti-Cornish sentiment is dealt with in Mark Stoyle's article in a scholarly publication^[2][3]

Govynn (talk) 20:16, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment You did well in removing the sections in regards to the Weasel wording, thank you. However to the main issue at hand, Giles Coren is known to be...abrasive, and his article currently has nothing about the Anti-Cornish sentiment he spurted out. In the section you wrote about it, it seems no back story as to why Coren came out with such gibberish is given. This seems very different from his attack on the Poles. --Τασουλα (Shalom!) (talk) 20:21, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

can you provide a citation for other "abrasive" material for Giles Coren? Govynn (talk) 20:26, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Referencing to his attack on the Poles, lumping them all together and choosing to ignore Poles who rescued and helped Jews during that time (Which, is obviously something I know allot about if you took note of my username!) --Τασουλα (Shalom!) (talk) 20:28, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Happy now? Article edited. Govynn (talk) 21:06, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Stoyle's article and the webpage do not establish notability of a general phenomenon. They are not focused on the subject of the article and frankly are a lot more nuanced that is being suggested here.--SabreBD (talk) 21:04, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: Govynn, the articles you cited as evidence of anti-cornish sentiment being a recognised thing do nothing of the sort. The first is a report by Cornwall County Council - hardly the most objective of works, nor particularly academic. The second and third - by the same author - cover anti-cornish sentiment used for propoganda effect during the English Civil War, and a general history of Cornwall. The former is fine for a reference, if this article was about the use of anti-cornish sentiment in one period for one purpose on one occasion. Unfortunately it is not; this article seeks to set out the idea that anti-Cornish sentiment is a recognised thing which permutates society as a general feeling. The only sources of any use here show no such thing. The latter source is, of course, completely useless; again, it shows a single useage, on a single occasion, by a single person. Can you provide any sources which have covered anti-Cornish sentiment as a general phenomenon? If so, this article is useful. If not, you're essentially sewing a lot of individualised incidents together in an effort to present a coherent phenomenon, which is not what Wikipedia is here for. Ironholds (talk) 21:56, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep but re-name and reformat akin to Cultural relationship between the Welsh and the English. It would then be possible to add Anti-English/incomer sentiment from the Cornish as well as general relationship problems between the Cornish and English, e.g. tourism/second homes etc. Bodrugan (talk) 23:35, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Further Comment - some editors have expressed "notability" concerns. I note that Wikipedia contains a very large number of articles on individual characters within a large number of fictional universes. This is 2011, storage is cheap and getting cheaper with time. Govynn (talk) 23:55, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Please note: WP:OTHERSTUFF.--SabreBD (talk) 06:01, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Additonal Further Comment - the article has substantial added material placing the Giles Coren quote in a broader context. A possible name change to the article is under discussion at the article's talk page Govynn (talk) 01:04, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep some useful content, but it would definitely benefit from being reformatted as mentioned. --Simple Bob ^{a.k.a. The Spaminator} (Talk) 17:49, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - having re-read the article and Chris Neville Smith's reasoning I'm changing to delete for the same reasons --Simple Bob ^{a.k.a. The Spaminator} (Talk) 06:46, 21 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. — • Gene93k (talk) 00:17, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ethnic groups-related deletion discussions. — • Gene93k (talk) 00:17, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete without prejudice to recreation with proper sourcing. Notability isn't the issue here, original research is. The quotes listed in this article may or may not have been motivated by anti-Cornish sentiment, but that's not the problem. The problem is that anyone can claim their part of the country is being discriminated against, but Wikipedia is not and should not be a free-for-all where anyone can pull together a collection of quotes from contemporary newspaper columns and call it an article on anti-X sentiment. The benchmark, like we have for all article, should be whether anti-Cornish sentiment itself is being written about in reliable sources. There may well be such articles (I remember seeing such an article on anti-Scouse prejudice many years ago), but any Wikipedia article has to reflect what's written in these articles. What we have at the moment is someone's point of view, and no matter how many sources are quoted to back up this position, that's not what Wikipedia is for. Chris Neville-Smith (talk) 12:05, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete – This is one in a list of articles created by the same user that has shown his repeated contempt for Wikipedia's guidelines. Support deletion per nom and per WP:N. — Fly by Night (talk) 22:19, 21 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - Per Ironhold's and Chris's reasoning. Reaper Eternal (talk) 18:06, 24 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.