Anne Sofie Madsen (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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Borderline notability, subject requests deletion,Ticket:2024091410007147. CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 00:44, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People and Fashion. CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 00:44, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep Do you have any details on the VRT request, CaptainEek? Any reason for why they would be against the article? Since nothing in it seems negative. And I would not call her borderline notable, since she's one of the biggest names in fashion. It's just that the coverage of her is almost entirely not in English. But outside of most every fashion magazine in the world covering her, she also receives mainstream coverage from newspapers of record. For example:

• Anne Sofie Madsen, the future as she imagines it - Le Temps
• Where does the human begin, where does the animal end?: Anne Sofie Madsen is a Danish fashion prodigy - Berlingske
• Anne Sofie Madsen's designs are inspired by mythology - Berlingske

So I'd really like some more information on this one before making a decision. Because I'm currently leaning toward too notable and well known for WP:BLPREQUESTDELETE to matter. Silverseren^C 01:03, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Silver seren The issue seems to be one of inaccuracy and the sources being out of date; most of them are over a decade old. I made a few corrections to the article, but her overall concern is that the article is now so out of date with her resume that potential employers google her and think her CV is fake because her more recent achievements are not on her Wikipedia. I think this is a problem we often encounter with BLP's: their article is frozen in time at a point when they had coverage, and doesn't reflect who they are now, but there isn't enough new coverage to update with. A problem that grows as Wikipedia reaches the 25 year mark. CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 01:09, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

That seems like an argument for expansion, not for deletion. Unless we're going to be deleting a ton of articles for being out of date. There's sources available. There's this from Vogue on her Tokyo 2017 collection. There's this from Women's Wear Daily on her Paris 2018 collection. There's this from Woman.dk and this from Fashion Forum about her 2021 collection collaboration with Lulu Kaalund. I got all that from just a quick Google search without even knowing anything about how to search for Danish, French, or Japanese sources. Silverseren^C 01:33, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'm the VRT agent for that ticket, and CaptainEek's characterization is correct. She has provided only vague objections about things being incorrect, nothing specific. I have asked her to use WP:Edit Request Wizard to identify specific things to fix on the talk page, but she seems to want a VRT agent to do the research and fix things for her. The creator of the article even invites people to contact her directly and includes her email on her user page, but the article subject has not engaged with her. Yes, the subject of the article wants it deleted because she isn't famous, but the sources already cited suggest she's clearly notable, which isn't the same thing as fame. ~Anachronist (talk) 02:08, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

So the argument on her end is more of the "not a celebrity level fame", rather than the "rather well known designer in a field level fame" that she actually is, it seems. I still think this is fully fixable in the article, though it would definitely be helpful if she was willing to work with us on that. Since I'm sure she's more personally aware of the fashion news sources covering her more recent work than any of us are. Silverseren^C 02:36, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople, Women, and Denmark. Shellwood (talk) 01:03, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Artists-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 06:07, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: I have received an email from the subject and have asked for further details. At this stage, I am not sure if she would prefer deletion or correction.--Ipigott (talk) 09:10, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  Deletion would be an option if she was borderline notable or the article was a hit job, but neither case applies here. The notability seems pretty clear, and the article isn't negative either. If an article about a notable subject is deleted, someone else will eventually come along and write another article. Improvement is really the best past forward. ~Anachronist (talk) 01:59, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep: She is a notable fashion designer and has coverage in reliable sources such as Vogue. Moopaz (talk) 23:01, 6 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep: Fashion deigner covered by Vogue and other sources listed above. I added the "Update" template to the top of the article, saying "Please help update this article to reflect recent events ..." So, if "potential employers google her" and find this article, they will be greeted with a note making clear the article does not reflect recent events. I hope that helps. Asparagusstar (talk) 03:27, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment: before I would go along with a keep, I would like to see the sources found incorporated into this article. This is my personal opinion, and I've raised it before in other AfDs. Bearian (talk) 04:09, 8 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I'd like to hear from more editors and if you have found sources, please mention them here.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:23, 10 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep: I had a very quick look on The Guardian newspaper website and found two places where she's named alongside far more famous designers. I've added them to the article. She's mentioned in a textbook, admittedly only a photo of an example of her work, but the author must have considered her worth including – Udale, J. (2023). Textiles and fashion : from fabric construction to surface treatments (Third ed.). Bloomsbury Visual Arts. --Northernhenge (talk) 14:47, 10 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  It seams to be another person. 87.49.43.175 (talk) 21:56, 12 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong delete: I have been in touch with the subject by email. She has made a very strong plea for the article to be deleted as although the details are based on reliable sources, some of them are incorrect. She does not have the time or experience to look for sources which paint a more correct picture of her life. As the article is having a negative effect on her current aspirations, she deserves to have it deleted.--Ipigott (talk) 08:38, 11 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep As Anachronist said, she is notable and the article is neither negative nor gushing. If this article is deleted, someone will create another one. I don't understand how a few details in this article could be "having a negative effect on her current aspirations" - surely she has a portfolio to show potential employers? Yes, the article doesn't cover anything in the last 7 years, and not much for the last 10 years, but Wikipedia articles are not meant to be CVs. Hopefully the "Update" template added by Asparagusstar will help potential employers understand that just because the article doesn't cover the last 7-10 years doesn't mean she achieved nothing in that time. RebeccaGreen (talk) 13:48, 11 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  Almost everything in the article is incorrect. The Universities do not exist. She graduated with an MA from The Royal Danish Academy of fine arts. Look at the schools website. But 3 other schools are mentioned. It looks like they do not exist. The Sources are wrongly quoted and most of the quotes dosen't even match with the article mentioned. 87.49.43.175 (talk) 21:55, 12 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  The magazine sources used in the article do seem to match the summarized information. Did you read them? Are you arguing that the magazines printed incorrect information? Silverseren^C 22:07, 12 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  There is so many mistakes. In 2007 she is living in Paris - says one line. But in the following she is living in London in 2007.

  And yes I checked the articles. Some of the quotes is no where to be found in the article referred to.

  The schools mentioned does not match with any schools. But in the article #5 it is mentioned she graduated from the Royal Danish Academy of Fine Arts with an MA. This is actually the only school that really exists. 87.49.43.175 (talk) 22:23, 12 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

So, this source used in the article states:

Over the years, Anne Sofie Madsen has created illustrations for both magazines and children's and young adult books, and as recently as 2005 she was a visiting student on the animation program at the Film School.

Along with:

She started at the School of Design in 2002 and was able to earn her bachelor's degree in clothing three years later.

“When I applied to the School of Design, I couldn't even use a sewing machine. I thought they looked a bit dangerous. and was surprised by how much sewing technique my classmates knew compared to me,” she says.

Therefore, the sources do cover the schools mentioned in the articles in addition to the MA at the Royal Danish Academy. Silverseren^C 22:27, 12 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, the timeline thing does appear to be a source error though, just by virtue of one mis-placed word. The source reads:

The designer really gained a deeper understanding of the craft when she moved to Paris in 2006 to do an internship. Anne Sofie Madsen spent the first few months at the trend research agency Peclers, which publishes trend books every year with colors and materials that will shape fashion in the years to come.

The aspiring fashion designer acquired strong research skills at Peclers before switching to an internship at John Galliano – one of Anne Sofie Madsen’s great fashion heroes – in the winter of 2007. She stayed there until May of that year, when she returned to Denmark to complete her master’s degree at the Danish School of Design.

I presume it meant May of 2008, the following year. Since that makes much more sense. Silverseren^C 22:30, 12 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I have edited the text, and added another source. I have avoided specific dates and said "Before finishing her master's degree, Madsen was offered a job as a junior designer with the London-based designer Alexander McQueen. She spent a year in London, then returned to Denmark. She graduated from the Royal Danish Academy of Fine Arts with a master's degree in 2009." Perhaps that will avoid inaccuracies but still reflect the info in the sources. RebeccaGreen (talk) 01:28, 13 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hello 87.49.43.175, the first university named in the article is the Danish Design School. It is blue, which means there is a link to another Wikipedia article. If you click on it, it takes you to the article Danmarks Designskole, that starts: "The Royal Danish Academy of Fine Arts, School of Design, more commonly known as the Danish Design School (Danish: Danmarks Designskole. often abbreviated as DKDS)". So there are different names for one university, and different names used for it in this article. That could be confusing, but it is not wrong. RebeccaGreen (talk) 00:42, 13 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment I can see there are sources for years not yet covered in the article. In an interview, Madsen says that she has had 8 books published since 2011 - they are not mentioned in the article yet either. These are not reasons to delete the article, though, they are reasons to improve and expand it. RebeccaGreen (talk) 01:34, 13 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]