The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Courcelles 08:46, 13 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

TFcon (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log) • Afd statistics

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Non-notable Transformers fan convention. Divebomb (talk) 11:29, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Popular culture-related deletion discussions. -- Jclemens-public (talk) 02:02, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ontario-related deletion discussions. -- Jclemens-public (talk) 02:02, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - For following reasons:

1. Article has been around for a few years but only has primary sources cited in references. Likely fails requirements for keeping.
2. TFcon is simply a redirect on TFWiki. Considering that, and how TFWiki has an article on a usenet group, this convention seems to be not-so important.
3. Looking at their dates, a lot of Google news results are irrelevant and unrelated to the topic of this article.

• Also, totally against merging to BotCon since they're not really that related. NotARealWord (talk) 17:18, 9 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per reasoning of nominator. Dwanyewest (talk) 17:35, 9 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep For following reasons:
  1. 2nd largest Transformers convention in the world
  2. Over 5000 attendees every year
  3. Hasbro Canada part of convention for the past 5 years
  4. Not that it is completely important by nominator has a hidden agenda
• 70.52.74.224 (talk) 03:10, 10 November 2010 (UTC) — 70.52.74.224 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
  • Comment
    1. You're not addressing the relevant notability issues.
    2. What do you mean by "hidden agenda"?
  • NotARealWord (talk) 14:27, 10 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment What "hidden agenda"? --Divebomb (talk) 09:49, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep For following reasons:
  1. Featured in Shout Factory Transformers Seasons 3 & 4 Documentary "The Autobots, The Decepticons & The Fans" including video from the convention as well as a mention in the "Special Thanks" featurette credits.
  2. Exclusive "Transformers" Toys produced in Association with Impossible Toys, Just i Toys and Fans Project
  3. Exclusive Transformers Art Produced for Convention by Artists Joe Ng, Don Figeroa, Matt Moylan & Alex Milne
• Tanath1138 (talk) 16:36, 10 November 2010 (UTC) — Tanath1138 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
  • Comment -That still doesn't address the notability issue. Plus, fan groups like Fans Project are probably non-notable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by NotARealWord (talk • contribs) 2010-11-10 17:59:23
    • Comment - Added links to Canadian Television articles from national Canadian Television Networks as well as links to large Transformers Websites not affiliated with TFCon whom consider the event news worthy.

      Question as to why other Fan Convention articles, like Auto Assembly from the nominator's home nation, are not up for deletion?

      —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tanath1138 (talk • contribs) 21:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

      • Those Transformers websites are message boards. They're not gonna help with notability. NotARealWord (talk) 10:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
      • Comment Well, for one, I am not British. I have no idea what may have led you to that conclusion. Also, the Auto Assembly article has links to BBC coverage of it, proving it is notable, which is why I didn't nominate it. --Divebomb (talk) 09:49, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - I'm unclear as to who determines which media outlets are legitimate, be they internet based or television based. To suggest that the local BBC coverage, in the case of Auto Assembly, somehow provides a wider and more legitimate coverage for an event than a sindicated program that airs throughout North America makes little sense to me. --[{User=Tanath1138}] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tanath1138 (talk • contribs) 18:49, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Duplicate !vote For following reasons:
  1. TFcon is an established event in not only the Transformers and Action Figure Collecting communities, but of the Toronto Convention communities. As TFcon has been held for nearly 10 years, and other Toronto conventions of similar size, eg. Ad Astra, are considered relevant, why is TFcon's article in jeopardy?
  2. TFcon has become a unique and special gathering for Canadian Transformers fans, as well as fans from other countries. TFcon remains one of the most important sources for Canadian fans to ask questions and learn about issues relevant to the Transformers brand in Canada, as opposed to the United States / Global branches of the brand. Thus, TFcon is relevant as a unique source of regional Transformers information and as a unique aspect of the culture of the Transformers fandom community, especially in Canada.
  3. TFcon is also the largest fan-run Transformers convention in the world, further cementing it as a unique cultural event in the Transformers (and Action Figure Collecting) fandom. What goes on at TFcon can have, and has had in the past, an impact not only on the attendees, but on the fan community as a whole.
  4. As previously mentioned, TFcon has been recognized by numerous media outlets, including local and national television stations, radio stations and their associated blogs, and various online outlets. Besides its relevance from their perspective, TFcon generates a considerable amount of media relating to the events of the convention, including panels and interview sessions. This information (often posted publicly online) contributes to the general body of knowledge of the Transformers community, and TFcon is relevant as the source of this knowledge.
• Comment: The length of the article regarding TFcon on another, unassociated wiki is irrelevant to whether or not an article for TFcon belongs on THIS wiki. As the two encyclopediae are run by different organizations, with different goals and ideas for what information to provide to the public and how, the one should be used to determine the content of the other. Tanath1138 (talk) 23:45, 10 November 2010 (UTC) — Tanath1138 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
  • Comment - Acknowledgement ≠ extensive coverage. Also, much of that comment sounded like an advertisement. NotARealWord (talk) 09:47, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep For following reasons:
  1. TFcon 2004 Documentary (then titled TransformersCon) appears on Metrodome's 2004 release of Transformers Season One
  2. TFcon 2004 Convention Panel with David Kaye appears on Madman's 2006 release of Beast Wars Season Two
  3. TFcon 2005 Convention Panel with Garry Chalk appears on Madman's 2006 release of Beast Wars Season Two
  4. Not only is TFcon footage included on the above mentioned Shout! Factory Season 3/4 set, but it was also released on the Matrix of Leadership 25th anniversary set.
  5. Space Channel, Electric Playground, Breakfast Television and other media outlets have covered TFcon
• 24.138.190.214 (talk) 02:23, 11 November 2010 (UTC) — 24.138.190.214 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
  • Comment - I think only the Electric playground thing you mentioned could establish notability. I don't think the Transformers brand can establish its fandom's activities as notable. NotARealWord (talk) 09:47, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - I think the Transformers franchise, be it Hasbro themslees or the DVD producers or writers or filmmakers or actors are very relevent to this discussion. The various DVD companies saw fit to travel to TFCon, like they do Botcon, to produce these featurettes because they know it is a legitimate event. This continued approach from NotARealWord of stating that nothing can help establish notability(not external websites, not televsion entertainment programs, and not the licensed DVD producers or Hasbro's invlovement itself) seems counter productive. [{User=Tanath 1138]] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tanath1138 (talk • contribs) 18:58, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - Primary, unreliable sources, no outside notability by reliable sources to be found. When Page 1 of the google search already starts hitting junk like youtube, and Page 2 are fan photobucket links, it is rarely a good sign. Tarc (talk) 13:22, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - A google search for Auto Assembly turns up a lot less than a TFCon search does. Yay or Nay on the TFCon article deletion, I would suggest that articles on Fan Convnetions should all have to follow the same rules and meet the same requirements.Tanath1138 (talk
    • Comment Google search results are really irrelevant here. Auto Assembly gets BBC coverage, which is really as notable as it gets. ----Divebomb is not British 10:19, 12 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. The sourcing is lacking on this one, and I can't find better sources anywhere. Tarc's point is also worth examining. UltraExactZZ ^Said ~ Did 13:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - Define sourcing? If you are only looking to the internet for sourcing and ignoring the DVD material mentioned, as well as TFCon's two appearances in Toyfare Magazine(2007 & 2009). If the internet is the only source of notability in the world then many articles will fail to meet the criteria set out.Tanath1138 (talk —Preceding undated comment added 19:09, 11 November 2010 (UTC).[reply]
    • Setting the documentary aside, none of the other DVD materials meet the criteria of reliable sources, since they do not discuss TFcon itself - they take place there, but they are not about TFcon. I don't know enough about the documentary to judge - who produced it? Did it air anywhere? Was it a TV documentary that they included on the DVD, or one made for the DVD? I would want more detail about the toyfare magazine appearances, as well - were they about the con itself or about something happening at the con? The two are not equivalent. As for the last point - we're not talking about many articles, we're talking about this one. UltraExactZZ ^Said ~ Did 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Tarc makes a great point about scale of notability. I have found a few routine news announcements and press releases but no substantial coverage. The point about the transformers Wiki convinces me the most. Might be worth Applying SALT as well The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 14:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment First of all, the Transformers Wiki point is hopelessly useless, since A. we only cover official stuff and TFcon isn't official, and B. the Usenet group NARW brings up as a comparison was in fact, the Transformers fandom back when Usenet was actually important. Second of all, I don't think salting will be necessary. ----Divebomb is not British 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• lol Delete no third-party converage. Grsz¹¹ 15:45, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - "No third party coverage" is innacurrate. The question is if the TFCon page has sufficient third party coverage to remain included on this Wiki. Relevent information, including links to TV coverage and the fact of inclusion on multiple DVD's would constitute some third party coverage. And just who is the "lol" directed at? Tanath1138 (talk
• Delete- per Tarc's argument. The substantial coverage in reliable independent sources is lacking. Reyk _YO! 22:15, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - Added links to Mississuaga Newspapaer article from 2008, 680News Article from 2010 and City TV Breakfast Televsion Guest list for July 15th 2010 - Unfortunatly the Video is no longer archived on the City TV Website, but the program contents are still listed.Tanath1138 (talk —Preceding undated comment added 08:05, 12 November 2010 (UTC).[reply]

• Keep For following reasons:

1. Extensive coverage on Television

• TFcon segment from The Circuit on Space Channel [1]
• Electric Playground Television Feature [2]
• City TV Breakfast Television Guest Spot [3]
• Televised YTV Shorts [4][5][6][7]

1. Extensive coverage on Radio

• 680 News article about TFcon [8]

1. Extensive coverage in print media

• TFcon Article in the Toronto Star [9]
• Toyfare Magazine Mention [10]

Comment: Breakfast Television is the most watched morning show in Canada. The Toronto Star is the largest paper in Toronto. The Space channel is the Canadian Sci Fi channel. Super Megatron (talk) 17:44, 12 November 2010 (UTC) — Super Megatron (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

• Keep - It's the premiere Transformers convention of Canada, had coverage in media, and it notable. Mathewignash (talk) 00:48, 13 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.