The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. Star Mississippi 02:17, 8 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Mehdi Zatout (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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Sources are mostly profiles, fight announcement and results, I haven't seen any compelling evidence that WP:GNG is met. Lack of independent, in-depth coverage. Subject does not meet criteria for WP:NKICK, fighting for ONE championship many times does not give notability. Lethweimaster (talk) 11:09, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Martial arts, Thailand, and France. Hey man im josh (talk) 12:11, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

KEEP - @Lethweimaster that article should be improved not deleted; fighter is ISKA and WBC World Champion, making him notable per WP:KICKGUIDE. Lewolka (talk) 12:37, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment:Improve article then, Lewolka. DarkHorseMayhem (talk) 16:16, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment"Kickguide" are not an official guidelines, they are to help us members of the Wiki project. These guidelines are erroneous: The WMC title is given loosely at local stadiums in Thailand (Bangla ect). Winning an ISKA title definitely doesn't make a fighter notable as the organization sanctions low level/non notable events all the time. Same for WBC Muaythai who's article was deleted for not being notable enough in 2022 (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/World Boxing Council Muaythai) If you don't like the criteria you should propose we review them officially, I'd gladly help, otherwise article has to pass GNG. Lethweimaster (talk) 20:54, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Lethweimaster Well I’m not a member of the Kickboxing task force but you are, so if those guidelines are erroneous you’re in a better position to start the change.Lewolka (talk) 10:02, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What is written at WP:KICKGUIDE is simply to guide Wikipedians in finding notable subjects, as if kickboxing athletes have won certain titles, significant coverage is likely to exist. I don't have problem with the official WP:NKICK guidelines. Lethweimaster (talk) 11:13, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

KEEP - He fought for notable world titles: WBC Muaythai, ISKA and ONE Championship Kickboxing (not MMA), which gives him notability. Source Osu .karellian-24 (talk) 16:57, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

We have to base our decision on Notability guidelines. Otherwise our discussions have no structure. These titles do not give the subject notability as per WP:NKICK. Lethweimaster (talk) 20:58, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but there it is not full. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Martial_arts/Kickboxing_task_force .karellian-24 Also for amateur boxing it is even passing with a NATIONAL championship medal. Or medalist in the world championships, World Games, sometimes even European championships of all the sports... (talk) 00:17, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The link you are referring to is WP:KICKGUIDE, which states: "If one of the following guidelines for kickboxing-related articles is in conflict with a Wikipedia policy or guideline, the later has priority over the former." Lethweimaster (talk) 08:37, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Fails WP:GNG due to lack of significant coverage. Note that WP:KICKGUIDE is not an official Wikipedia policy or guideline and thus has no bearing on this discussion. Per WP:NSPORTS, all sport subjects must pass WP:GNG. If multiple sources of SIGCOV are found, ping me and I will be more than happy to change my !vote. Alvaldi (talk) 09:38, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris ^talk! 11:18, 23 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Doesn't pass WP:GNG, only have routine sources.DarkHorseMayhem (talk) 13:02, 23 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• KEEP - ISKA, WMC, and WBC world champion, European and multiple time French champion, ONE veteran and World title challenger [1] and coach of a notable fighter,[2] more refs [3], [4] Lewolka (talk) 14:12, 23 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  You already voted, strike one of your votes. DarkHorseMayhem (talk) 19:00, 23 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Does not meet GNG.

1. Tapology stats page N
2. Sherdog forums post N
3. "Yahoo News", copied from onefc.com (hosted on FightNewsAsia) N
4. 404 page from WBC Muay Thai, but non-independent anyway N
5. onefc.com non-independent N
6. onefc.com, article repurposed from the earlier onefc.com story copied by #3 N
7. "AsiaOne", identical to #3 copied from onefc.com N
8. Sherdog, routine match preview by a contractor for ONE Championship on a site of questionable reliability N
9. 404 N
10. Boxemag stats N
11. Siam Fight Mag, pure Q&A N
12. Bangkok Post, unattributed copy of The Nation, match preview/interview with opponent, no SIGCOV of Zatout N
13. 404 page from WBC Muay Thai N
14. MMA Fighting, passing mention N
15. MMA.uno 404, likely routine match recap N
16. mixedmartialarts.com/ONE Championship, non-independent N
17. ONE Championship, non-independent N
18. Sport360 retirement announcement, routine fight recap followed by quotes from a press conference, interspersed with content regurgitating or directly plagiarized from the onefc.com profile from #3. onefc.com:

    Zatout, who co-owns Venum Training Camp Thailand in Pattaya, is looking to display the skills that made him a kickboxing and Muay Thai champion in organizations around the globe. [...]
    Zatout got his start in Muay Thai through a group of school friends who were learning at a local gym in his hometown of Noisy-le-Sec, an eastern suburb in Paris, France.

    Sport360:

    Zatout, who co-owns Venum Training Camp Thailand in Pattaya, began training Muay Thai at 10, through a group of school friends who were learning at a local gym in his hometown of Noisy-le-Sec, an eastern suburb in Paris, France.

    N
19. Wordpress blog N
20. muaythaitv.com results 404 N. JoelleJay (talk) 22:54, 23 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 18:24, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete after review of JoelleJay's analysis above. Nswix (talk)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.