The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge‎ to Lobo, Batangas as a supported ATD. Owen× ☎ 12:34, 21 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Lobo Church (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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Run-of-the-mill parish church. No indication of notability. — Moriwen (talk) 23:59, 13 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Architecture, Christianity, and Philippines. — Moriwen (talk) 23:59, 13 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. As the nominator has said, this is clearly a run-of-the-mill. This is the church of Lobo, Batangas, similar to other churches that all other barangays in the Philippines have. In addition, the church seems to have nothing that would make it notable. AstrooKai (Talk) 11:30, 14 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  FWIW, not all barangays have parish churches. Howard the Duck (talk) 10:56, 15 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  I see. I guess it's more of "almost every barangays" rather than literal "all barangays". AstrooKai (Talk) 11:08, 15 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  It's not even "almost all barangays". Where are you getting these stats? Pasig doesn't have 30 churches. Is something lost in translation here? Howard the Duck (talk) 12:34, 15 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  Well, that's how this news article and people I have met present it. Also, I don't think this is much of a concern considering that this AfD is about the church's notability and not the factualness of my statement of "all" or "every" barangay having churches. I will not continue to discuss this further. AstrooKai (Talk) 14:06, 15 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  The article refers to "places of worship," of which churches are a subset. This distinction is important because the argument is "there are 40000+ churches such as this one so this is not notable", which is obviously not the case. Howard the Duck (talk) 15:15, 15 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  (Commenting as someone who is a lay parish server)

  There is indeed a lot of confusion there, because the original comment said "similar to other churches that all other barangays have" and the basis for this was the quote in the Inquirer article that said "almost every barangay in our country features a Catholic place of worship."

  In the Catholic church, a "place of worship" could mean anything: cathedral, basilica, shrine, parish, chapel (public or private) or oratory. Under the Code of Canon Law (Canons 1223-1229), however, a chapel is not normally included in the count of churches because chapels can be erected anywhere (in the Philippines, you can find them in schools, hospitals, office buildings and even shopping malls); it can even be closed to the public (i.e. private chapel); and unlike parish churches (of which the AfD'es article is one) a chapel only needs the permission of the local bishop and need not have a corresponding decreeof canonical erection from the Pope. No one in his right mind would include (say) schoolor hospital chapels in the tally of "churches that all other barangays have". --- Tito Pao (talk) 03:52, 16 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete — (moderate) — Generally, seconding nominator. Fairly strong notability failure, in my opinion. At most the content should be merged into Lobo, Batangas, since, as AstrooKai pointed-out, barangays hosting their own parish church is moderately notable. This, however, does not make the church itself notable. MWFwiki (talk) 02:26, 16 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  The Philippines does not have 40000+ parish churches!!!

  God, AstrooKai poisoned the discussion with that falsehood. Howard the Duck (talk) 11:00, 16 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  If you have a point, please kindly make it, otherwise stop bludgeoning and you should probably AGF. MWFwiki (talk) 09:11, 17 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  The points are

  1. Your argument rests on a statement that is a misunderstanding at best, and a deliberate falsehood at worst.
  2. Because of (1), all arguments based on that statement should be disregarded, and I reserve my right to point that out.

  As for (2) you can report me to the appropriate drama boards of you seem fit. Howard the Duck (talk) 10:42, 17 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• Weak delete or merge with Lobo, Batangas. There are perhaps scores (if not hundreds) of centuries-old churches in the Philippines, and not every one of them have articles. If the AfD were up to me, the two easiest reasons for me to vote for a Keep are either #1.a significant event or incident that took place in the church (like Barasoain Church, or #2.the existence of an NHCP marker in the church premises, because the significance and importance of the church was already vetted by an official government agency. (NHCP markers are similar to Listed Buildings and Blue plaques in the UK, Fondo Ambiente Italiano markers, Kulturdenkmal(for German-speaking nations), and Monument historique (France). This one doesn't have both, and I cannot yet think of any other reason to have this article. In the absence of such justification, I'd move to either have this article deleted or just have it merged to Lobo, Batangas so that the historical information about the church may be retained. --- Tito Pao (talk) 04:06, 16 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge with Lobo, Batangas per WP:ATD. I don't think it can stand as a notable article on its own and the parent article is short enough to accommodate some of the info here. --Lenticel ^(talk) 00:22, 20 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge with Lobo, Batangas per above. The article contains interesting and pertinent information about Lobo and its history. (small edit to correct previous edit summary) --Richard Yin (talk) 05:52, 21 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.