Langbahn Team – Weltmeisterschaft

Talk:Tigrayans

Edward Ullendorff

The source only speak about Tigrinya language. It say nothing about Tigrinya/Tigrayans being the authentic carriers of the historical and cultural tradition of ancient Aksum Yeozg0 (talk) 20:09, 4 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for this, and clarifying the sources. Keyboard Editor (talk) 06:29, 5 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Population in Eritrea, United States, Canada, Australia, and Europe

I can't find population of Tigrayans people in Eritrea as well as abroad in the United States, Canada, Australia, and Europe. Are there population data? 217.76.13.2 (talk) 13:32, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Request to move Tigrayans to 'Tigrayan people'

@Amakuru hello administrator, I appreciate your revert of my page move that I made, your right I should have stated why I wanted to move the page before moving it. I would like to move the page Tigrayans to 'Tigrayan people' as this seems the most grammatically correct way to address the ethnicity, just like Amhara people or Tigrinya people, it should be moved to Tigrayan people. Thank You for your time. Cookiemonster1618 (talk) 20:36, 18 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

According to Edward Ullendorff

@Socialwave597 Have you even read Edward Ullendorff's book or the pages mentioned in the citation to be claiming it does say that and restoring it?

I literally have access to the pages in question and he does NOT mention any of that anywhere. Why are you disrupting the article like that?

The book: [1]

Page 35 -

"[...]language, Tigrinya, and taken over Tigre, they also abandoned monophysite Christianity in favour of Islam, the religion of the tribes they had conquered. The Ad Sheikh tribe have their encampments between the Habab in the north and the Ad Tekles in the south. They claim descent from a Sherif in Mecca, but most of these tribal memories are incapable of proof. They are certainly fervent Muslims, and their hereditary chief is styled Nazir. To the east of the Ad Sheikh are three smaller tribes, Ad Tsaura, Ad Muallim, and Bet Mala, who are, of course, Muslims and very largely nomadic. In the north of Eritrea, along the Red Sea coast, we find the Rashaida, recent immigrants from Arabia who keep themselves separate from the neighbouring Tigre tribes. Their language and culture are Arabic, and they have not so far undergone any measure of assimilation, either physically or linguistically. In the Keren region itself there are two large tribes, the Marya in the north-west and the Mensa in the east. The Marya, in their turn, have split into two branches, the Red and the Black Marya. They were originally monophysites, but are said to have been converted to Islam early in the nineteenth century. The Mensa, who border on the Hamasien division, have among their number a small contingent of Tigrinya speakers who are monophysite Christians, but the great majority of the tribe are Muslims and speak Tigre. More than 1,000 of the Mensa have become Protestants under the strong influence of the Swedish Mission in that region. The eastern plains, along the Red Sea coast, extend from the frontiers of the Sudan in the north to the border of French Somaliland in the south-with the towns and ports of Massawa and Assab. The northern part is very sparsely populated and has, in part, already been discussed. The southern area, the large plains of the Danakil, will be subjected to closer scrutiny when we reach the tribes of Cushitic speech. At present we are concerned with the central area of the long Red Sea littoral, the Tigre-speaking Massawa region and the foothills leading up to the plateau, with Ginda at their centre. Ginda is a small town amidst luxuriant vegetation half-way between Asmara and Massawa and also halfway between the ethnic regions of the mountain plateau and the[...]"


Page 121 -

"[...]the Cushitic substrates. It is, of course, in the sphere of the vocabulary that foreign influences find easiest access, and not infrequently this is the extent of their intrusion. The Ge'ez dictionary shows a marked resemblance to that of South Arabian, but many words have received new and specialized meanings. In other cases it is likely to be purely accidental that the limited vocabulary of epigraphic South Arabian (as known to us now-limited despite the immense number of inscriptions that have been discovered) does not contain words well attested in Ethiopic. And, naturally, the vagaries of lexical development and linguistic propagation generally must always be kept in mind. Both South Arabian and Geez provide some instances of resemblances to North Semitic. Such parallels between language groups at present widely separated geographically are, of course, well known also else-where.? The South Arabian inscriptions in Ethiopia were followed a few centuries later by Ethiopic epigraphic documents' in which Geez makes its first appearance as a new language-quite distinct from South Arabian. We possess, unhappily, no Ethiopic literature (see next chapter) from that period, and, as far as we can judge at present, the life of Ge'ez as a spoken language seems to have been relatively short. So, of course, was the full bloom of the Aksumite Kingdom. Its decline began in the seventh or eighth century and was followed, some 200 years or so later, by the eclipse of Ge'ez as a living tongue, though it continued to be Ethiopia's literary and ecclesiastical language to almost the present day. It is, how-ever, interesting to note that the classical period of Ge'ez literature was between the thirteenth and seventeenth centuries, i.e. hundreds of years after it had ceased to be a living language used in the day-to-day life of the people. It is particularly unfortunate that the period from the ninth to the twelfth centuries is enveloped in such impenetrable darkness owing to the political upheavals which occurred at that time and[...]"

Now explain to me where any of that is written. Javext (talk) 14:49, 12 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Literally the next page after, on page 36 to 37 (assuming you have a different IBSN then me). Haggai Erlich also quotes that part of Ullendorf in his latest book to justify a similar statement.[2]
Also its pretty obvious now that you are editing on behalf of Gabi838r (see[3] vs [4] and [5] vs [6], among others) except a sockpuppet investigation opened on you in the near future. Socialwave597 (talk) 03:59, 13 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I have just checked page 36 and 37 and once again none of that is written there. Provide a quotation because I cannot find it anywhere.
I am checking the source you sent from Haggai Erlich and you are referring to this: "The leading Ethiopianist, Edward Ullendorff, wrote: 'Here [in Tigray] is historic Abyssinia par excellence, the Semitized people of the plateau with their Semitic language and Old Testament way of life?"
Where in the world do you think that can be used to cite the content I removed :
(According to Edward Ullendorff, the Tigrinya speakers in Eritrea and Tigray are the authentic carriers of the historical and cultural tradition of ancient Aksum. He regards the contemporary Tigrayans to be the successors of the Aksumite Empire.)
How is that similar in any way? Please be for real lmaoo, you're just biased and I've caught you vandalizing multiple articles, I'm surprised you've even made it this far without getting blocked, but whatever.
And now you know you're in a tight spot so you resort to accuse me of editing on behalf of God knows who (childish tactic). Me and him made some similar edits (which happens to everyone in wikipedia) and because of that im supposedly a sockpuppet account of him, that's crazy. I bet I could do the same to you, but fortunately i'm not like that. Javext (talk) 17:45, 13 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
"Turning to the great Tigrinya-speaking bloc of the Eritrean and north Ethiopian highlands, we enter the area of the old Aksumite Kingdom whose dominion was, in later centuries carried southwards by people of Amharic speech. Here is historic Abyssinia par excellence, the Semitized people of the plateau with their Semitic language and Old Testament way of life. [...] And the people who speak this language are the authentic carriers of the historical and cultural traditions of ancient Abyssinia."[7]
Revert your edit Socialwave597 (talk) 02:53, 14 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, just came back from a trip, sorry for the delay in my answer. I will actually concede and accept this part to be put on the article: "And the people who speak this language are the authentic carriers of the historical and cultural traditions of ancient Abyssinia" but the next phrase has to be removed as it's mentioned nowhere, "He regards the contemporary Tigrayans to be the successors of the Aksumite Empire." Javext (talk) 23:00, 18 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
What do you think "historic" or "ancient Abyssinia" means? Look at Haggai Elrich's book for instance, there is no debate that he considers them to be the successors of the empire. Socialwave597 (talk) 21:05, 20 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I know that ancient abyssinia means aksum. Haggai Elrich is a biased scholar, at least from my perspective, since he was a close friend of Meles Zenawi (The tigryan prime minister with a very anti-amhara mindset). Either way, I didn't see where he mentions that the Tigrayns are the successors of Aksum, please quote it or give the link.
Professor Edward also states, "Turning to the great Tigrinya-speaking bloc of the Eritrean and north Ethiopian highlands, we enter the area of the old Aksumite Kingdom whose dominion was, in later centuries carried southwards by people of Amharic speech." [8], so as you see, not everything is black and white. Javext (talk) 20:12, 21 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
By dominion he means the successor kingdoms of Zagwe and the Solomonids. As the Christian Ethiopian kingdom shifted south in the later centuries (fact). Haggai Erlich is reliable, he is also a big admirer of Haile Selassie and has wrote countless books about him in the past, doesn't really mean anything. But I've change the source to include other authors. Socialwave597 (talk) 01:55, 22 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Quelle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Tigray_people