Langbahn Team – Weltmeisterschaft

Talk:Tajiks

Sunni islam should be made explicit in the info box please, not just islam

Sunni islam should be made explicit in the info box please, not just islam

We should make a modern era section.

The current history section in this page just talks about the origins of Tajiks. We should make a modern era section, that many other ethnic group pages already have. Tajiks have had plenty of history in the USSR, Soviet-Afghan War, Afghan civil war, and the current situation in Afghanistan right now.

Semi-protected edit request on 26 November 2024

2A00:801:7A6:EAD4:C54A:A21F:C8AD:DE94 (talk) 13:44, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Uzbekistans goverment did’t estimate that numbers as 2 to 11 million Tajiks in Uzbekistan. You should put that to the estimate of Richard Foltz. Richard Foltz linked as source to this page told us that he believes that there are between 6 to 11 million Tajiks in Uzbekistan. You changed the numbers please put it back to previous. If Uzbekistans government estimated that as 2 to 11 million please share us sources.

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 17:27, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extinction of Eastern Iranian Languages.

Only little of the Extinction of Eastern Iranian languages should ever be attributed to "The spread of the Persian Language" as using this idea to answer the question of "why in the world many of these people speak persian who arent persian but a mixture of iranians" is dangerous and neglects the years of genocide that the region of Central Asia has lived through

Just like the parts of China which once was inhabited with Scythians and other Iranian peoples(whether genetic differences are or arent it doesn't matter as in a general sense they were Iranians)We can conclude that these regions were colonized by Turks and Mongols who formed two groups

1.The fleeing Turks 2.The colonizing Turko-Mongolians

1.The fleeing Turks These turks being the people who ran away from Mongolians during the Mongolian Plundering of Central Asia and settled as "immigrants"

2.The subsequent Colonization of Central Asia These Mongolians and Turks who colonized these lands after destroying its native inhabitants and reducing them to modern day Tajikistan and Afghanistans Borders.

Now, how does this answer what i was referring to of course, as to what lead to the eastern iranians speaking "Farsi" as a language, well i ask you? When your people , land and cities are burned and your people mostly wouldve understood two languages one being universal to your people " due to the the ancient empire of Iranshar and Arabian Islamic Empire, which wouldve incentivized Learning Farsi as that was the language that was close to the lands in which the capital of the islamic empire was established among Iranians as the language to use to get economical and social benefits in the courts of Baghdad" And when your nations and lands and cities of cultures are turned into nothing but rubble and stone (but of course this isnt genocide because Genghis khan was a good man who allowed religious freedom throughout his tolerent empire) tell me, if you had 200 bactrians, 100 khwarazmians, 200 sogdians and these people all fled to lets say kabul, and they spoke two languages one native to there lands and the other being Farsi, wouldve these people had the opportunity to bother saving there languages if the lives of there sons, daughters, mothers, brothers, sisters, and other relatives were underthreat? Would've they been worried about preserving there languages or wouldve they chosen the most convenient thing and making the best of the situation they had to survive in as little as possible, wouldve they preferred to become entirely Turkic or adopted another Iranian language that secured there bloodline is some manner if not the other?

Please understand that i dont have any intentions here besides to have a civil debate on this topic as it would be very important to ask why did coincidentally many genocides in history was committed by certain groups against only certain groups. 2607:FEA8:FC60:7C5A:12AD:F0E7:662A:6FB (talk) 15:47, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I can add further for my "hypothesis" here of why Turkization, (where it was Absolute gencoide and integration of a few remaining remnents of the Iranian peoples to turkic societies) might've had been mores successful than other regions of greator Iran, well to answer this we can look at two parts of iran that was changed , Iraq and Central Asia, where these lands where changed, iraq to arabia and Central Asia to Turkic
The thing we can assume that allowed such an event to take place couldve been that Turks and mongols were closer to central asia Before as compared to the time they "migrated" from parts of mongolia to Central Asia(during the white hun and heptalite time periods) where there presence couldve been present but not spread out as it is today as it seems turks only seems to have been able to carve empires out of places where they lived and inhabitant and not places that had different ethnic groups because unlike the tolerant empire of iran created by Cyrus which respected other peoples, it turns out people dont like it when you wish to "erase" them from history.
We could use the reasoning above to understand why turkization of Central asia was successful as the land was
1.Now closer to the steppe lands that turks controlled, hence giving them advantages for moving , unlike before where it wouldbe been guarded
2.The destruction of central asia, providing new opportunities for turks to move and settle to central Asia, which also occured twice, once with Genghis and other time with Timurlame
(Timurs intelligence here is undermined as he didnt "beatify" Samarkand as city that his ancestors destroyed because he was in love of the arts and crafts but because it wouldve been a good opportunity to finally give a foothold to turks to access iran(which succeeded because iranians in iran got more susceptible to raids, plunders and gradual colinization of iran by Turkic tribes which partly was also stopped by Turks themselves, ironically.) 2607:FEA8:FC60:7C5A:12AD:F0E7:662A:6FB (talk) 16:07, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Origins of the Tajiks

I'm adding the full list of origins and possible origins for the Tajiks from both Tajikistan and Afghanistan. I have added citations, and evidence. Tajiks are a mixed group, they are not actually Persians, but they are their own unique group with their own amazing history, at the same level as Persians. Again they are MIXED. They also have some Greek ancestry due to the Greek conquests of Central Asia. The Greeks and Macedonians lived in Bactria in Tajikistan and northern Afghanistan. Have a look at the people referred to as Dayuan in the citations and internal link I added. I believe in honesty. So make sure you understand what true history is, and not make up your own stories. Thanks. Leopardus62 (talk) 05:06, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have references that back up your claims? DNA test results on research papers etc? As far as I know, their closest group (pashtuns) don't have greek admixture beyond a few haplogroups according to latest research Nowtis (talk) 11:03, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
replying to what Leopardus said, Tajiks even though they cant be considered "greek" they can be considered descendents of Greco-Bactrians considering that many of there tradition's, cultures and values came from the greeks but it was a mix of the region, the most important thing to Leopardus62 right now should be acknowledging that many histories of tajiks have been lost with the Mongolian genocide of our regions, tajiks could be descendants of a number of the lost eastern iranian tribes, but nonetheless i do think , us tajiks reserve the right to distinguish ourselves from Persians of iran who say we speak "dari"(an insult term to undermine the language we speak , but we understand) and "Pashtuns" who call themselves
Descendents of Israelites,
And are also closely tied to the region of the india, where ironically more pashtuns live in Pakistan outside of "Afghanistan" than the region they claim to.
Still the time i would assume has come for Tajiks, to either they integrate to Pashtun societies or iranian ones, or make one of there own, we cannot let our lives be dictated by corrupt warlords who only think about there own pockets or Pashtuns who wish to change us into there own culture or iranians who consider us alien to themselves and consider themselves "European"(lol)
I do believe tajiks are a unique people that are stuck in a war that they shouldn't be a part of (rule of the majority in afghanistan forces the tajiks to fight for pashtuns and there wars thus putting them in a really hard situation as they have nothing to gain and everything to lose) 2607:FEA8:FC60:7C5A:97EA:B715:7199:993F (talk) 19:21, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't need to show you, of all people, DNA results proving Greek descent. Furthermore it is extremely difficult and largely impossible to pinpoint Greek descent with DNA haplogroups. It's mainly guess work. I have actually studied Genetics at university to know this. Also, no actual studies have conclusively proven that Pashtuns have Greek descent. A lot these studies that are used for Pashtuns are statistical and speculative. The only actual evidence comes from archeology.
So understand that archeology and historical evidence is also evidence used to justify descent and relations. The Macedonians and Greeks heavily colonized and ruled the area of Northern Afghanistan and Tajikistan, which was called Bactria. Tajiks are native to Northern Afghanistan and Tajikistan (i.e. Bactria). Southern Afghanistan was not Bactria. Also, Bactria was very Greek after that time. The Greco-Bactrian kingdom is an important part of the history of Tajiks. Go read about the Dayuan people, who were related to the Greco-Bactrians, mentioned by ancient historians.
Also, Pashtuns are not originally from northern Afghanistan or Bactria. Look up the article titled 'Pashtun colonization of northern Afghanistan'. Pashtuns did not live in northern Afghanistan or Bactria, and only recently, in the last 200 years, did they reach northern Afghanistan. In addition, MANY ethnicities in Afghanistan have Greek descent, not just Pashtuns.
Therefore, please research and read the required works regarding historical evidence and archeology (which I have done a lot), and understand that you don't own this article. It is a communal and collaborative work. Don't disrupt the improvement of the article, and take out good information that is usually included in other important Wikipedia articles. Leopardus62 (talk) 04:41, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Quelle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Tajiks