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68.96.83.215 (talk) 13:57, 26 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Since this article has now attracted more attention (and some nice editing too; thanks people) I feel it is time to start a talk page so that any disagreements regarding the nature of pocket cruisers can be discussed. For instance I don't believe that all pocket cruisers are trailerable as a matter of design; mine is, sort of (a Savage Nautilus) but there are many pocket cruisers here in Tasmania (especially older wooden ones) that have never been on a trailer, including my brother-in-law's eighty year old 17'6" huon pine gem.--Phil Wardle 06:35, 16 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

While it's true that many pocket cruisers aren't trailered (I know my 12' 6", <500 lbs. Guppy 13 spent time in stored in a marina slip at one point) I think that the ability to trailer the boat puts a practical limit on the size; while you might never put the boat on a trailer, the fact that you could do so makes it a "small boat". While Austrailians probably don't care much about being able to tow the boat (what, 90% of you live withing spittin' distance of a seacoast?) much of the sailing done in the US is done on inland lakes, and it's nice to be able to change lakes on occasion. Any distinction made is going to be a fuzzy one, and the ability to put it on a trailer implicitly puts limits the length, beam, and displacement.

Shorty's pocket cruiser list, for example, goes up to 20', but that's an arbitrary cutoff point. There are many 21' and 22' lightweight cabin boats out there, including some like the Catalina 22 which was designed for long ocean cruising and the Stevenson's Vacationer that are billed as "pocket yachts". I picked 26' because the MacGregor Yacht Corporation makes a 26' water ballasted powersailer that was designed to be easily trailered; the beam is under 8', the weight is about 2500 lbs., comes with a trailer, and retails prices start at under US$20,000. A mid-sized SUV or minvan with a towing package could tow it, so I decided that I couldn't really come up with a solid argument for excluding it. When I started shopping for something bigger than the Guppy, I picked 21' as my limit because I want something I can tow behind a Grand Caravan without a towing package, and to be conservative, I picked a 1500 lbs. displacement maximum. There are a number of 21' boats that will work, but most 22' boats I have run across have significantly more ballast and so run closer to 2000 lbs. displacement. scot 15:18, 16 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You make some good points. The trouble is, I think, that there is a very fine line between what we call "trailer-sailers" here in Australia and pocket cruisers. Obviously, many if not most trailer-sailers would also qualify as pocket cruisers, yet not all pocket yachts are trailer sailers...if you follow my drift. It's not an important point I know, but it does make for tricky definitions.

Not so much "fine line" as "sigificant overlap". Any readily trailered boat is a trailer sailor, from a Sunfish up to a MacGregor 26. However, many of these are daysailors or racing boats; to be a cruiser a cabin capable of sleeping one or two is required. http://www.discoverboating.com/buying/types/detail.aspx?id=51 claims a "cruising sailboat" is a minimum of 22 feet and not trailerable, so what we're calling pocket cruisers fit more their definition of a daysailor with a cabin http://www.discoverboating.com/buying/types/detail.aspx?id=48. I think that any easily trailerable cabin boat (i.e. towable by a reasonable passenger vehicle, launchable from a standard boat ramp) is legitimately classifiable as a pocket cruiser. While this may not cover all pocket cruisers, it certainly covers a lot of them, probably a majority. A traditional 20' full keel wooden sloop with a cabin, for example, would fit the definition of a pocket cruiser but not a trailer sailor, so trailering should not be a requirement, but I still think it's a good guideline.

On another point, perhaps something needs to be said in the article about the joys of cruising in a small boat (and of ownership) especially compared with the hassles of larger sailboats. I know quite a few people who have become "overboated" and, especially as they age, they take the boat out less and less, whereas people like myself, who has gone from a 32 footer down to 19', are out on the water every weekend. Solo sailing in a small boat is also a joy compared to handling a big boat and it's large sails.--Phil Wardle 06:25, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Certainly that's the attraction; the size limits keep it possible to sail most pocket cruisers singlehanded, if they're equipped with labor saving devices like roller furling jibs and cruising spinnakers. I think location is also going to make a lot of difference on what people will think are required characteristics. In Austraila, just about the entire population (save for the ones in Alice Springs, which I gather are considered rather odd even by Aussie standards :) ) lives on the coast, and so more ballast to handle open ocean conditions becomes more important, and trailering might be less of an issue if there are a large number of marinas nearby. Where I am, right in the middle of the continent, the only sailing options are lakes, and the ability to trailer is more important.

Maybe we should create two lists of characteristics--a required list and an optional list. How about, for a start:

Required features:

• Maximum length, about 25 feet (7.5 m)
• Has a cabin with room to sleep for overnight trips
• Good stability, beamy hull
• Easy to handle for crew of one or two

Optional features for trailerable pocket cruiers:

• Light enough to be towed
• Shoal draft or swing keel on ballasted keel boats
• Water ballast for additional stability

Well, I've got to run for now; feel free to fiddle with or comment on the above lists. scot 19:40, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I see some nice points made here again. I have altered a few sentences, just to include the rare Pocket Yachts that are not trailerable. Also made mention of that Russian chap who circumnavigated the world in a pocket yacht (actually it was only about ten feet long!!! I saw it in Hobart and could NOT believe it). Needs citation though. Also there have been attempted ocean crossings in Hood 20s and such that, because these boats are not intended for offshore sailing have led to loss of life and/or vessels...also citations needed if mentioned (I haven't mentioned this aspect of maritime silliness in the article for obvious reasons).