The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Elli (talk | contribs) 16:50, 18 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

KYTV (TV) → KYTV (TV station) – Current title does not help distinguish from KYTV (TV series). AllegedlyHuman (talk) 20:57, 18 April 2021 (UTC) —Relisting. ~ Aseleste (t, e | c, l) 10:21, 26 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This is a contested technical request (permalink). GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 23:43, 18 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose per WP:NCBC 162 etc. (talk) 21:38, 18 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose per above. Mvcg66b3r (talk) 03:48, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (broadcasting)#North America which says "For stations which do not have a suffix, if disambiguation is necessary ... place the type of service in parentheses; for example, "KSFO (AM)" or "KDFW (TV)". -- Netoholic @ 06:37, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Support. The above title is incomplete disambiguation as both the station and the series are "TV". A topic-level guideline can't dictate that its disambiguation schema can always be the primary over anything else. --Gonnym (talk) 09:25, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  @Gonnym: I don't see a justifiable WP:TITLES basis for your vote. Surely WP:NCBC is not "primary over anything else" - it is limited in scope to the naming of broadcast entities, and it has a specific way of handling North American stations, which I quoted above. Now, you are free to disagree with the specific naming convention itself, and seek to change it, but to vote this lone article to a title which doesn't follow the convention would not be WP:CONSISTENT with other articles that follow the convention. Any potential confusion is handled by the hatnote, and I think you can agree that its an extremely rare case that a TV series and a TV station have the same name. -- Netoholic @ 10:20, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  I'm positive you know the title policy as good as I do for me not needing to point out WP:INCDAB. Regarding your other points, WP:CONSISTENT does not matter when the disambiguation used is not sufficient, which is why good guidelines take that into account and offer solutions, which NCBC seems to not do (for American stations, but does for others). Regarding the rare cases, again, irrelevant here, as we aren't talking about a theoretical case, but a specific case where there are two competing titles, one which uses a disambiguation which can be used for both. If you feel that the title policy should be changed and exempt NCBC guidelines from it, feel free to start a RfC. --Gonnym (talk) 11:19, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• This is an awkward case because both camps of editors have points, and this is a highly rare circumstance. We don't have any TV station pages on active stations in the US that take a longer disambiguator, and this article is correctly named per WP:NCBC. We also have an incomplete disambiguation case that needs resolution. I understand the concern of the topic editors, who are used to this kind of disambiguation for station articles, but Gonnym is right that this is not very desirable and can be a bit confusing. The need for this is exceedingly rare, especially with US broadcast station call signs; I can only think of KFC (radio station), and that's a very early station. Australia has a number of disambiguated station pages like HSV (TV station) instead of "HSV (TV)", so there is at least precedent for the use of this disambiguator elsewhere in the project, though not in the North American stations. I have to side with the nominator and Gonnym and support the move because the incomplete disambiguation problem takes precedence over NCBC. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 18:02, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Ordinarily I would oppose, but the fact the British TV show title is KYTV–virtually identical to the TV station's callsign–there's really no other choice but to support. It's frustrating as it does go again all current naming conventions, but the TV show article is properly titled. KYTV (TV station) is unfortunately the only acceptable title. Nathan Obral (talk) 20:36, 25 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: Wikipedia:WikiProject Television has been notified of this discussion. ~ Aseleste (t, e | c, l) 10:28, 26 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Uh... what's wrong with moving to KYTV-TV?! Plenty of TV stations articles are named that way – e.g. KUSI-TV. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 14:55, 26 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • @IJBall: Because that's not the official callsign. There's no "-TV" suffix at the end of KYTV. Mvcg66b3r (talk) 16:02, 26 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Meh – nonparanthetical disambig. is always preferable to parenthetical disambig. (esp. non-standard parenthetical disambig.), and moving to KYTV-TV would solve all of the problems in this case. This is an exceptional case. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:39, 26 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • The topic editors will correctly disagree in this case, and let me explain why. US television stations can have official call letters with or without the TV suffix. For instance, all of these are valid call signs: KTVK, KPHO-TV, KSAZ-TV, KPNX, KNXV-TV. For stations that are not suffixed and need some sort of disambiguation from other topics, we use (TV) as a "silent disambiguator" as a first line of defense (official FCC publications do the same but without the space, e.g. "KYTV(TV)").

• The only cases until now where we have used longer disambiguations are where defunct stations must be differentiated from current ones. I developed the priority formula (User:Sammi Brie/Radio naming) that is used to do this in North American television and radio, which is the reason we have pages like WFMZ-TV (channel 67), WRTV (New Jersey) and WTOM-TV (Lansing, Michigan).
• An article at "KYTV-TV" would be flat-out incorrect. I get that the NCBC silent disambiguator approach doesn't work here because of the INCDAB issue that is of more concern, but the next best alternative is fairly clear. Gonnym's comment suggests that the solution adopted here be written into NCBC.

Hopefully this explains the stance that those of us who edit pages like this have toward that proposal, which I would roundly reject, IJBall. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 17:12, 26 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

There's already a redirect at KYTV-TV – if it's "wrong", why is it there? Even if it is "wrong", who cares?! Like I said – this is a WP:IAR case: it's better to move it to KYTV-TV than pretty much any other suggestion here, all of which are unnecessarily complicated. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 17:16, 26 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The redirect from KYTV-TV has been there since 2006, with literally one edit total. A discussion on "why is it there" should be for RFD, where people might actually determine that it shouldn't be. AllegedlyHuman (talk) 00:01, 27 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Support: The current disambiguator is not sufficiently disambiguating, and the suggested alternative seems straightforward and reasonable. As WP:NCBC says, the matter "is best treated with common sense, and occasional exceptions may apply". Here, WP:INCOMPLETEDAB needs to be taken into account. — BarrelProof (talk) 17:57, 4 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (non-admin closure) NW1223<Howl at me•My hunts> 15:45, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

KYTV (TV station) → KYTV (Springfield, Missouri) – Better disambiguation (would want to discuss this) Mvcg66b3r (talk) 15:18, 18 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Move to KYTV (TV) per WP:NCBC. See previous RM above. 162 etc. (talk) 16:29, 18 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  That wouldn't be right in this case - see first part of RM above. Mvcg66b3r (talk) 16:51, 18 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

My argument (that you supported at the first RM) is that KYTV (TV) and KYTV (TV series) are sufficiently disambiguated, and that we don't need to diverge from the established naming conventions at WP:NCBC and WP:NCTV. 162 etc. (talk) 17:29, 18 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose because the item to be disambiguated is not being disambiguated from a broadcast station in some other location—as is normally the disambiguation need for call sign-titled pages—but from other subjects entirely. This is highly unusual in the field because of the way our guidelines are set up and the rare clash of (TV), etc. as "silent disambiguators" with other items. I supported the current article title because it was adopted in the only similar cases, all Australian stations: TEN (TV station), HSV (TV station), ADS, ABN, NEW, ABS, et al. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 03:36, 19 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• (edit conflict)Oppose—there is no apparent need to disambiguate further than the current title provides for. Moving from one naming-convention-breaking value to another does not add value without a documented case where it would help. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 15:49, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]