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This needs to be reworked massively. It covers only a very small history of the Fremen. In the original Dune series the Fremen changed dramatically as time passed and their world changed. In the Legends of Dune they are also quite different, however this article mainly covers the time period of the original Dune novel.--202.81.18.30 10:40, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The Fremen aren't the best hand to hand fighters in the universe. The humans bred by the Tyrant were faster than any human that lived in the Fremen days, as Ducan Idaho discovered in GEOD. Beyond that, the Honored Matres were far faster and far more deadly than the Fremen in hand to hand combat. Beyond that, Miles Teg could move faster than any known human, capable of killing hundreds of people in fractions of a second.

While it would be fair to mention that humans generally were better at the time of the Tyrant, it should be done in the context of describing how the Fremen of Dune times effectively disappeared, to be replaced with Leto's "Museum Fremen" who did nothing but mimic the rituals of the original Fremen. JJ 23:35, 3 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This article only covers the Fremen of the first three original books. People evolve, obviously and you can't compare yourself with someone 4000 years in the future/past. Same goes for comparing people in GEOD with Heretics and Chouse. 203.218.86.162 17:17, 5 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Additionally, if someone were to incorporate the information from the Machine Crusade novels, this would be an excellent addition. Information on the Buddislamic peoples, both Zensunni and Zenshi'ite, and their use as slaves and depiction as cowards (for not participating in the war against the Machines.)--Vidkun 15:12, 19 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• If this is done, it would be prudent to note that there is controversy about whether or not the information given in those novels should be considered canon. Willbyr (talk · contribs)

Who defines canon anymore? I would consider that the authors of those books are working off of FH's notes, and very little (I hesitate to say none) of what is in those bookds contradicts anything in the original series.--Vidkun 18:56, 19 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

They are canon because Herbert's estate owns the original books and the new ones. However there are actually a lot of discrepancies but they are very nitpicky and you can only find them if you really concentrate while reading. Theres a user page somewhere on WP where two guys had a big argument over the contradictions. 203.218.86.162 17:17, 5 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The discrepancies debate (which has flared up again) has been moved to a Discrepancies (Dune) page so that the fight is centralized there and doesn't pollute other articles. Justin Johnson 19:36, 5 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Is the section on the Dune games really pertinent in its current form? Seems like a lot of fluff and not much truly relevant info. Willbyr (talk | contribs) 12:38, 13 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• I agree. It seems like this article was mostly written by a fan of the Dune games, not the books. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.158.223.4 (talk) 21:30, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The description of the zensunni as a mixture of zen buddhism and sunni muslim was unsourced and constituted Original research. Even though Herbert uses many Arabic and Muslim references throughout his novels, we cannot infer that his intention was for this sect to be derived from these two religions, as the article states it as plain fact.

I think the later appearance of the Bene Tleilax Zensufi does infer this quite heavily 71.56.114.89 (talk) 15:23, 2 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Shouldn't there be a mention to the Fremen's appearance; the fact that there just like humans in every way and yet they have unnaturally blue eyes? I would add that except that that's all the information I have about their appearance. Someone would probably put an expansion tag on it. Lighthead ^þ 23:35, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

They aren't just like humans they are humans. The only extraterrestrials are the sandworms and maybe some other small plants and animals involved in their lifecycle; although I don't remember any. The Steersmen and Futars are human. The kangaroo rat and slig and chairdogs etc are invasive species from earth the later two being genetically engineered from terrestrial ancestors.24.99.56.15 (talk) 02:41, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In my opinion the Tuareg were very influential on the Fremen more so than the Bedouin. This might seem nit-picky but for a couple of things. The Tuareg dyed their skin blue by wearing indigo infused clothing much like the Fremen dyed their eyes with melange usage, and the fact that all Tuareg men wore the veil instead of women, so that the image of a blue veiled Tuareg evokes the Fremen as soon as you see it. Also, the Tuareg flavor of Islam is much more matriarchal and mystical which also evokes the Fremen. In Fact, before converting to Islam they were certainly matriarchal and their first great leader was a woman. But i don't need to explain this, just look at the picture in the Tuareg article and that should be enough to convince you. An interview with Herbert mentioning them would be great. Very few people seem to be aware of them so any increased interest in their culture would be great. 71.56.114.89 (talk) 15:18, 2 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]