Talk:Flying saucer/GA1
GA Review
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Nominator: Rjjiii (talk · contribs) 19:27, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
Reviewer: Viriditas (talk · contribs) 04:25, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria
- Is it well written?
- A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:
- B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:
- Lead section looks good.
- A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:
- Is it verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check?
- A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:
- One spot check result needs attention. See section below.
- B. Reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose):
- C. It contains no original research:
- D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:
- Returns false positive due to large quote.
- A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:
- Is it broad in its coverage?
- A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:
- B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):
- A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:
- Is it neutral?
- It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:
- It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:
- Is it stable?
- It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:
- Stable.
- It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:
- Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?
- A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content:
- GTG.
- B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:
- Could go shorter on the captions per recommendations below.
- GTG.
- Could go shorter on the captions per recommendations below.
- A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content:
- Overall:
- Pass or Fail:
- On hold. Minor changes needed.
- Pass or Fail:
Feedback
Lead
Done
- Not bad, but I did experience a few speed bumps:
The term has gradually been supplanted by the more general military terms unidentified flying object (UFO) and unidentified anomalous phenomena (UAP).
- Aim for active voice (object, verb, subject): "General military terms such as unidentified flying object (UFO) and unidentified anomalous phenomena (UAP) have gradually replaced the term over time." Or something like that.
- Done, Rjjiii (talk) 02:36, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
- Aim for active voice (object, verb, subject): "General military terms such as unidentified flying object (UFO) and unidentified anomalous phenomena (UAP) have gradually replaced the term over time." Or something like that.
- Do we really need three links in a row? That's WP:SOB territory, IMO. Any chance you can spread these links out in the paragraph? You probably don't need to link to science fiction, so maybe that would solve the problem?
- Done, Rjjiii (talk) 02:36, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
- Do we really need three links in a row? That's WP:SOB territory, IMO. Any chance you can spread these links out in the paragraph? You probably don't need to link to science fiction, so maybe that would solve the problem?
Flying saucers have been described as silent or deafening, with lights of every color, flying alone or in formation, and twenty to thousands of feet in diameter.
- Try for active voice and consider metric conversions however you think it should be done (if needed): "Witnesses describe flying saucers as silent or deafening, with lights of every color, flying alone or in formation, and ranging in size from twenty to thousands of feet (6 to 1,000 meters) in diameter."
- Done, I went with "over 2,000 feet (610 m) in diameter". I think that's in line with MOS:UNIT and the source, Rjjiii (talk) 02:36, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
- Try for active voice and consider metric conversions however you think it should be done (if needed): "Witnesses describe flying saucers as silent or deafening, with lights of every color, flying alone or in formation, and ranging in size from twenty to thousands of feet (6 to 1,000 meters) in diameter."
The majority of reported saucers have been identified with known phenomena including astronomical objects like Venus, airborne objects like balloons, and optical phenomena like sun dogs.
- Try something along the lines of: "Experts have identified most reported saucers as known phenomena, including astronomical objects like Venus, airborne objects like balloons, and optical phenomena like sun dogs."
- Done, Rjjiii (talk) 02:36, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
- Great job. Viriditas (talk) 23:55, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
- Try something along the lines of: "Experts have identified most reported saucers as known phenomena, including astronomical objects like Venus, airborne objects like balloons, and optical phenomena like sun dogs."
History
- Precursors
- When you cite a source only once, but use it as a combo (for example,[1][2][3]), it helps to bundle them to increase readability. Since there are many different ways to do this, you can review Help:Citation merging. If you search that page for "Bullet format", you'll find the style I generally use, but there are many different variations available depending on how you use your specific citations.
- In the case of the "Many aspects ..." paragraph, I broke the citations up and placed them at the end of sentences. I think that's also more clear. In a few places, I did bundle related citations (list of definitions, emoji citations, and so on), and now I think I either have one or two footnotes throughout the article currently. If there are any pairs of citations that are both used only once and related, feel free to point those out and I'll bundle them as well, Rjjiii (talk) 02:58, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
Before the term "flying saucer" was coined, fantasy artwork in pulp magazines depicted flying discs. Skeptical physicist Milton Rothman noted the appearance of "flying saucers" in the fantasy artwork of 1930s pulp science fiction magazines, by artists like Frank R. Paul. One of Paul's earliest depictions of a "flying saucer" appeared on the cover of the November 1929 issue of Hugo Gernsback's pulp science fiction magazine Science Wonder Stories.
- I think you're using flying saucer in quotes here for a specific, academic reason here, but I wonder if it is truly needed as I found it distracting. Can we bypass this rule? For example, you could just say "Before the flying saucer was coined as a term" and "Milton Rothman noted the appearance of so-called flying saucers" and "One of Paul's earliest depictions of a flying saucer". Just wondering if you can think of a way to avoid quotes here as it slowed me down as the reader. No biggie if you want to keep it but I dislike anything that makes me pause. Viriditas (talk) 00:09, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
- Done, Rjjiii (talk) 03:16, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
- I think you're using flying saucer in quotes here for a specific, academic reason here, but I wonder if it is truly needed as I found it distracting. Can we bypass this rule? For example, you could just say "Before the flying saucer was coined as a term" and "Milton Rothman noted the appearance of so-called flying saucers" and "One of Paul's earliest depictions of a flying saucer". Just wondering if you can think of a way to avoid quotes here as it slowed me down as the reader. No biggie if you want to keep it but I dislike anything that makes me pause. Viriditas (talk) 00:09, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
- This is a little bit nit-picky, but the linking here bothered me. Do we need to link to both pulp magazines and pulp science fiction? And you link to science fiction here when you can easily link to it instead in an earlier paragraph and cut down on the number of blue links. Apologies for being so picky but this bothered me. Viriditas (talk) 00:13, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
- Done, Rjjiii (talk) 03:16, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
- Origins
- You've got this linked at least three times in this section. Once in the see also hatnote, twice in the series template of the same name, and a third time in the body ("wave of hundreds of flying saucer reports"). Not sure what you want to do here, but maybe cut the "see also" at the top?
- Alternately, you could keep the see also and lose the other link in the body. I see this style in other sections as well.
- Removed the see also, and left it in the body text. The navigation template is invisible in mobile, so I don't want to leave that as the only link, Rjjiii (talk) 03:16, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
Newspapers had reported hoaxes by those looking to profit from the saucers and the Roswell incident, which was quickly retracted as balloon debris.
- Try something like "Newspapers reported hoaxes by people trying to profit from the saucers and the Roswell incident, which was quickly retracted as balloon debris." Perhaps you could even improve that.
- Went with "Newspapers reported hoaxes and the quickly retracted Roswell incident." Rjjiii (talk) 03:58, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
- @Rjjiii: You accidentally introduced an error. Did you mean "Newspapers reported hoaxes and then quickly retracted Roswell incident"? Check the article. Viriditas (talk) 10:14, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
- Try something like "Newspapers reported hoaxes by people trying to profit from the saucers and the Roswell incident, which was quickly retracted as balloon debris." Perhaps you could even improve that.
In the July 7, 1947 Twin Falls saucer hoax, a widely reported crashed disc from Twin Falls, Idaho, was found to have been created by four teenagers using parts from a jukebox.
- "In the widely reported July 7, 1947, Twin Falls saucer hoax, four teenagers in Idaho fabricated a crashed disc using parts from a jukebox."
- Went with "In the widely reported July 7, 1947, Twin Falls saucer hoax, four teenagers in Idaho fabricated a crashed disc from jukebox parts." Rjjiii (talk) 03:58, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
- "In the widely reported July 7, 1947, Twin Falls saucer hoax, four teenagers in Idaho fabricated a crashed disc using parts from a jukebox."
In the following years, other national governments would follow suit
- "In the following years, other national governments followed suit."
- Went with "Other national governments followed suit." Rjjiii (talk) 03:58, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
Description
- Identification
- Identification studies of UFOs is linked twice. I looked at Wikipedia:Hatnote and didn't see anything about linking twice, but it seemed odd to me to link both in the hatnote and the body. If this is standard, then just ignore me.
- I removed it. Rjjiii (talk) 03:58, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
The majority of flying saucer and broader UFO reports have been identified with known phenomena.
- "Experts have identified the majority of flying saucer and broader UFO reports with known phenomena."
- Done, Rjjiii (talk) 03:58, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
- @Rjjiii: Unfortunately your changes introduced accidental formatting errors. See "[[Experts have identified". Viriditas (talk) 07:56, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
- "Experts have identified the majority of flying saucer and broader UFO reports with known phenomena."
Investigations by the British government in the 1950s found the vast majority of reports to be misidentifications or hoaxes.
- "British government investigations in the 1950s found that the vast majority of reports were misidentifications or hoaxes." Or any other variation might work.
- Done, Rjjiii (talk) 03:58, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
- "British government investigations in the 1950s found that the vast majority of reports were misidentifications or hoaxes." Or any other variation might work.
Some causes of saucer sightings include Venus, ice crystals, balloons, and airborne trash.
- "Common explanations for saucer sightings include the planet Venus, weather phenomena like ice crystals, balloons, and airborne trash."
- Done, Rjjiii (talk) 03:58, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
- "Common explanations for saucer sightings include the planet Venus, weather phenomena like ice crystals, balloons, and airborne trash."
The US Government and General Mills launched thousands of top-secret Skyhook spy balloon during the 1950s.
- Plural: Skyhook spy balloons. Try "The U.S. government and General Mills launched thousands of top-secret Skyhook spy balloons in the 1950s."
- Done, Rjjiii (talk) 03:58, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
- Plural: Skyhook spy balloons. Try "The U.S. government and General Mills launched thousands of top-secret Skyhook spy balloons in the 1950s."
These massive balloons floated at high altitudes, making it difficult to judge their speed, and were widely reported as flying saucers.
- "Because they floated at high altitude, these massive balloons were widely reported as flying saucers, making it difficult to judge their speed."
- Went with "Because they floated at high altitude, it was difficult to judge the speed of the massive balloons, and they were widely reported as flying saucers." Hopefully this is more clear. Difficulty judging the speed is part of why they were misidentified both above the United States and above the Soviet Union. Rjjiii (talk) 03:58, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
- "Because they floated at high altitude, these massive balloons were widely reported as flying saucers, making it difficult to judge their speed."
Beginning in the mid-1950s, psychologists began to study why people believed in flying saucers if the evidence was so limited.
- You use begin twice here. Play around with it: "Beginning in the mid-1950s, psychologists investigated why people believed in flying saucers despite the lack of evidence." Or whatever you prefer.
- Went with "In the mid-1950s, psychologists began to study why people believed in flying saucers despite the lack of evidence." Rjjiii (talk) 03:58, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
- You use begin twice here. Play around with it: "Beginning in the mid-1950s, psychologists investigated why people believed in flying saucers despite the lack of evidence." Or whatever you prefer.
French psychiatrist Georges Heuyer considered the movement to be a kind of global folie à deux, or shared delusion, used to navigate anxieties.
- "French psychiatrist Georges Heuyer viewed the phenomenon as a kind of global folie à deux, or shared delusion, that people used to navigate anxieties." Did you mean cope instead of navigate?
- Went with "French psychiatrist Georges Heuyer viewed the phenomenon as a kind of global folie à deux, or shared delusion, triggered by fear of a possible nuclear holocaust." but open to revising that again. Cope isn't quite the idea that Heuyer and the others are getting at in the cited source. More so that these global anxieties and fears about the potential end of the world made people susceptible to falling into delusions. Rjjiii (talk) 03:58, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
- "French psychiatrist Georges Heuyer viewed the phenomenon as a kind of global folie à deux, or shared delusion, that people used to navigate anxieties." Did you mean cope instead of navigate?
In the 1970s, French UFO researcher Michel Monnerie compared reports that were later identified with reports that remained unidentified.
- This is probably fine, but you can try to eliminate the repetition if you want: "In the 1970s, French UFO researcher Michel Monnerie compared reports that were later identified with those that remained unexplained."
- Done, Rjjiii (talk) 03:58, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
- This is probably fine, but you can try to eliminate the repetition if you want: "In the 1970s, French UFO researcher Michel Monnerie compared reports that were later identified with those that remained unexplained."
This led him to develop the thesis
- How about "These findings led him to develop the thesis"?
- Done, Rjjiii (talk) 03:58, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
- How about "These findings led him to develop the thesis"?
- Reported sightings
Some witnesses reported silent objects; others reported a roar or thunderclap.
- Some variation, perhaps? "Some witnesses reported the objects as silent, while others described hearing a roar or thunderclap."
- Went with, "Witnesses described hearing sounds ranging from a thunderclap to total silence." Rjjiii (talk) 06:19, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
- Some variation, perhaps? "Some witnesses reported the objects as silent, while others described hearing a roar or thunderclap."
Sightings were most often during the night around sunset or sunrise
- "Sightings typically took place at night, around sunset or sunrise."
- Done, Rjjiii (talk) 06:19, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
- "Sightings typically took place at night, around sunset or sunrise."
If the saucer's crew was described by the witness, they were usually extraterrestrial.
- That sounds strange to my ear. How about "When witnesses described the saucer's crew, they usually regarded them as extraterrestrial." Or some variation along that theme?
- Went with, 'Almost all witnesses described distant saucers in flight.[70] If witnesses described the saucer's crew, they usually regarded them as extraterrestrial. Menzel concluded, "No single phenomenon could possibly display such infinite variety."' to make clear that not all or even most witnesses describe a crew. Rjjiii (talk) 16:36, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
- That sounds strange to my ear. How about "When witnesses described the saucer's crew, they usually regarded them as extraterrestrial." Or some variation along that theme?
Flying saucers have been consistently described and depicted as ahead of contemporary technology.
- "Witnesses consistently describe and depict flying saucers as as ahead of contemporary technology."
- Done, Rjjiii (talk) 06:19, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
- "Witnesses consistently describe and depict flying saucers as as ahead of contemporary technology."
The majority of 1947 reports emphasized speed. This fell to 41 percent in 1971, and 22 percent in 1986.
- You discussed speed in the previous sentence. I get what you are trying to do and why you worded it this way, but it might be more effective to combine the two together. Then you get: "The 1947 sightings—occurring months before Chuck Yeager broke the sound barrier—emphasized the "incredible speed" of flying saucers. While most 1947 reports focused on speed, this fell to 41 percent in 1971 and 22 percent in 1986." I prefer this style.
- Done, Rjjiii (talk) 06:19, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
- You discussed speed in the previous sentence. I get what you are trying to do and why you worded it this way, but it might be more effective to combine the two together. Then you get: "The 1947 sightings—occurring months before Chuck Yeager broke the sound barrier—emphasized the "incredible speed" of flying saucers. While most 1947 reports focused on speed, this fell to 41 percent in 1971 and 22 percent in 1986." I prefer this style.
In the 1950s, hovering flying saucers were associated with contactees and hoaxes; by 1986 almost half of reported UFOs were claimed to hover slowly or motionlessly.
- "In the 1950s, hovering flying saucers were associated with contactees and hoaxes. By 1986, almost half of reported UFOs were said to hover slowly or remain motionless."
- Done, Rjjiii (talk) 06:19, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
- "In the 1950s, hovering flying saucers were associated with contactees and hoaxes. By 1986, almost half of reported UFOs were said to hover slowly or remain motionless."
- Fictional portrayals
Flying saucers in popular media underwent a similar change in movement.
- It's the start of a new sentence in a new subsection, but it sounds like you are continuing from the previous one without much transition. Not sure how you want to do it, but I would start by changing it to "In popular media, flying saucers underwent a similar change in motion."
- Went with "In popular media, flying saucers underwent a change in motion similar to the shift in eyewitness reports. Early portrayals emphasized high speed maneuvers, but later media gradually shifted to slowly hovering discs." Rjjiii (talk) 06:19, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
- It's the start of a new sentence in a new subsection, but it sounds like you are continuing from the previous one without much transition. Not sure how you want to do it, but I would start by changing it to "In popular media, flying saucers underwent a similar change in motion."
Popular culture
Fictional flying saucers reflect concerns around atomic warfare, the Cold War, loss of bodily integrity, xenophobia, government secrecy, and whether humanity is alone in the universe.
- You used "reflect" in the previous sentence, so mix it up a bit. Also, it might help to separate concerns from questions: "Fictional flying saucers represent concerns about atomic warfare, the Cold War, loss of bodily integrity, xenophobia, government secrecy, and the question of whether humanity is alone in the universe."
- Done, Rjjiii (talk) 19:58, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
- You used "reflect" in the previous sentence, so mix it up a bit. Also, it might help to separate concerns from questions: "Fictional flying saucers represent concerns about atomic warfare, the Cold War, loss of bodily integrity, xenophobia, government secrecy, and the question of whether humanity is alone in the universe."
Popular media has been influenced by witnesses and has increased interest in flying saucers.
- I get what you are trying to say, but I think it would help to drill down a bit. "Reports from witnesses have influenced popular media and led to greater interest in flying saucers."
- Went with, " Reports from witnesses influenced popular media, which led to greater interest in flying saucers." Rjjiii (talk) 19:58, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
- I get what you are trying to say, but I think it would help to drill down a bit. "Reports from witnesses have influenced popular media and led to greater interest in flying saucers."
For Earth vs. the Flying Saucers, producer Charles H. Schneer licensed Donald Keyhoe's UFO books to as the basis for the screenplay, and special effects artist Ray Harryhausen met with contactees such as George Adamski in the desert to discuss the film's saucer design.
- "For the film Earth vs. the Flying Saucers, producer Charles H. Schneer adapted Donald Keyhoe's UFO books for the screenplay, while special effects artist Ray Harryhausen consulted with contactee George Adamski about the saucer design."
- Done, Rjjiii (talk) 19:20, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
- "For the film Earth vs. the Flying Saucers, producer Charles H. Schneer adapted Donald Keyhoe's UFO books for the screenplay, while special effects artist Ray Harryhausen consulted with contactee George Adamski about the saucer design."
A disc, often domed or shining down a ray of light, has become visual shorthand for aliens
- "Shining down" sounds odd to me. You've got a lot of options such as emitting or projecting. "A disc, often domed or projecting a beam of light, has become visual shorthand for aliens."
- Went with "emitting a beam of light", Rjjiii (talk) 19:20, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
- "Shining down" sounds odd to me. You've got a lot of options such as emitting or projecting. "A disc, often domed or projecting a beam of light, has become visual shorthand for aliens."
It has been used in modern times to signify pop culture aliens.
- This sentence seems lonely all by itself. Can it be merged into the previous sentence? Or does it just say the same thing twice?
- Cutting this and reworking the thought into the next note, Rjjiii (talk) 19:20, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
- This sentence seems lonely all by itself. Can it be merged into the previous sentence? Or does it just say the same thing twice?
Present day ufologists have misinterpreted the aerial disc motif in older art, created when the shape had different connotations.
- Not sure what you are trying to say here. Can you be specific? Without looking at the source, my guess is that you are referring to the ufologists who engage in pseudoscientific claims of past alien contact (ancient astronauts) by pointing to disc motifs in art and saying it refers to ancient aliens. Perhaps you can explain a bit more for those not familiar with this.
- Looks like we have at least one article with a content discussion (The Annunciation, with Saint Emidius).
- I broke this out into into a separate paragraph to discuss it in more depth, Rjjiii (talk) 19:20, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
- Literature
There were several precursors to the modern flying saucers in science fiction literature, such as The Shaver Mystery.
- You don't need the article "the" here. "Several precursors to modern flying saucers appeared in science fiction literature, including The Shaver Mystery."
- Done, Rjjiii (talk) 03:24, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
- You don't need the article "the" here. "Several precursors to modern flying saucers appeared in science fiction literature, including The Shaver Mystery."
Aliens and flying discs were common in the 1950s science fiction comics that flourished after the Golden Age of Comic Books.
- Remove the? "Aliens and flying discs were common in 1950s science fiction comics that flourished after the Golden Age of Comic Books."
- Done, Rjjiii (talk) 03:24, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
- Remove the? "Aliens and flying discs were common in 1950s science fiction comics that flourished after the Golden Age of Comic Books."
The comic book anthology UFO Flying Saucers, launched in the 1960s, published illustrations of supposedly real sightings.
- "Launched in the 1960s, the comic book anthology UFO Flying Saucers featured illustrations of supposedly real sightings."
- Done, Rjjiii (talk) 19:58, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
- "Launched in the 1960s, the comic book anthology UFO Flying Saucers featured illustrations of supposedly real sightings."
Advertisements in the 1950s and 1960s referenced flying saucers as purported alien spacecraft and reflected the diversity of attitudes towards their plausibility.
- Done, Rjjiii (talk) 16:36, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
- "Advertisements in the 1950s and 1960s portrayed flying saucers as purported alien spacecraft, reflecting a diversity of attitudes toward their plausibility."
- Done, Rjjiii (talk) 03:24, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
- "Advertisements in the 1950s and 1960s portrayed flying saucers as purported alien spacecraft, reflecting a diversity of attitudes toward their plausibility."
The major attitudes towards UFOs invoked in print advertisements were the potential for advanced technology, awe towards their potential pilots, and skepticism about hoaxes.
- Can you rewrite this one? It's a little hurky-jerky. Not sure how to do it, but I will provide one example. Perhaps you can find a better way: "The key beliefs toward UFOs in print advertisements include the potential for advanced technology, awe towards their potential pilots, and skepticism about hoaxes." Removed attitudes as duplication from the previous sentence.
Much of the former pulp reader base shifted their attention to the growing medium of television during the 1950s.
- This is probably fine, but there's an opportunity to have fun with it: "As the 1950s progressed, former pulp readers turned their attention to the growing medium of television."
- Done, Rjjiii (talk) 03:24, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
- This is probably fine, but there's an opportunity to have fun with it: "As the 1950s progressed, former pulp readers turned their attention to the growing medium of television."
- Film and television
- MOS:REPEATLINK: "Link a term at most once per major section, at first occurrence. Do not re-link in other sections if not contextually important there". You've got duplicate links here from Earth vs. the Flying Saucers (linked in previous subsection) and B movie, which is linked twice in this subsection. Go ahead and run User:Evad37/duplinks-alt to see the duplicate links highlighted.
- [1] I think everything that script highlights now is linked in separate major sections, Rjjiii (talk) 19:58, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
The 1949 film serial Bruce Gentry – Daredevil of the Skies featured a man-made flying saucer, and the 1950 film The Flying Saucer focused on Cold War espionage
- You're missing italics in the title. Try using while instead of and: "The 1949 film serial Bruce Gentry – Daredevil of the Skies featured a man-made flying saucer, while the 1950 film The Flying Saucer focused on Cold War espionage."
- Italics done, "while" could imply too much contrast, Rjjiii (talk) 03:24, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
- You're missing italics in the title. Try using while instead of and: "The 1949 film serial Bruce Gentry – Daredevil of the Skies featured a man-made flying saucer, while the 1950 film The Flying Saucer focused on Cold War espionage."
The first novel to explicitly use the term was Bernard Newman's The Flying Saucer, released in 1950. The novel's craft was a hoaxed alien ship intended to end military tension by giving humanity a common enemy.
- On the one hand, that's confusing, as this is if the "Film and television" section and you've got a separate section for "Literature". On the other hand, it looks like you put it here to thematically link the novel to the Cold War. What to do?
Other places adapted the largely American phenomenon at different times, adding elements of the local culture.
- Do you mean other countries? Other places sounds odd to me.
- Changed to countries, Rjjiii (talk) 03:24, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
- Do you mean other countries? Other places sounds odd to me.
- All the sources in the third paragraph can be bundled. This is especially true for the sentence: "Japanese filmmakers incorporated flying discs and alien invaders into the tokusatsu tradition in mid-50s films such as Fearful Attack of the Flying Saucers and Warning from Space.[86][87][88][89][90]" All five sources are used only once, so just put them in one citation.
- Done, Rjjiii (talk) 03:24, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
Doctor Who has featured different designs of flying saucers
- Italicize Doctor Who.
- Done, Rjjiii (talk) 03:24, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
- Italicize Doctor Who.
As the flying saucer was surpassed by other designs and concepts, it fell out of favor with straight science-fiction moviemakers, but continued to be used ironically in comedy movies, especially in reference to
thelow-budget B movies, which often featured saucer-shaped alien craft.
- You don't need "the" here.
- Done, Rjjiii (talk) 03:24, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
- You don't need "the" here.
The 1964 Italian comedy Il disco volante centered around a flying saucer.
- Kind of feels out of place, like a holdover from a 2005 "In popular culture" list. I wonder if there's a way to make it fit better into the section.
- Yeah, pretty much, I revised that subsection. I found a broader source for better NPOV, expanded the last paragraph, and moved a couple works down to better place them in context and chronology. Hopefully this works better, Rjjiii (talk) 03:18, 19 January 2025 (UTC)
- Kind of feels out of place, like a holdover from a 2005 "In popular culture" list. I wonder if there's a way to make it fit better into the section.
- Architecture
The sleek, silver flying saucer in particular is seen as a symbol of 1950s culture.
- Not a fan of "in particular" here. Just come straight out and say "The sleek, silver flying saucer is widely regarded as a symbol of 1950s culture."
- Done, Rjjiii (talk) 03:24, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
Architect Frank Lloyd Wright, who collaborated on the design of the flying saucer in "The Day The Earth Stood Still", went on to use the flying saucer as an architectural motif.
- Aside: There are two flying saucer elements in the King Kamehameha Golf Course Clubhouse (1957) that Wright designed, but none of the sources mention this. That's just my opinion.
- Oh, it's fantastic. I love motifs like this that clearly convey a futuristic outlook, but from a point of view that now evokes the past, Rjjiii (talk) 03:24, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
- Aside: There are two flying saucer elements in the King Kamehameha Golf Course Clubhouse (1957) that Wright designed, but none of the sources mention this. That's just my opinion.
- Not a fan of "in particular" here. Just come straight out and say "The sleek, silver flying saucer is widely regarded as a symbol of 1950s culture."
Spaceships are also one of the subjects of novelty architecture. Novelty architecture, also known as mimetic architecture, is the practice of creating structures shaped like other existing objects.
- Instead of repeating "novelty architecture. Novelty architecture", you can space it out like this: "Spaceships are also one of the subjects of novelty architecture. Also known as mimetic architecture, novelty architecture is the practice of creating structures shaped like other existing objects."
- Done, Rjjiii (talk) 16:36, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
- Instead of repeating "novelty architecture. Novelty architecture", you can space it out like this: "Spaceships are also one of the subjects of novelty architecture. Also known as mimetic architecture, novelty architecture is the practice of creating structures shaped like other existing objects."
Moonbeam, Ontario has an alien for its mascot and a prominent roadside flying saucer at its welcome center.
- You're missing a comma after Ontario. Also, you don't say "Canada" after Ontario like you do the US, Taiwan, etc. Same with Johannesburg in the last sentence of the section.
- Added commas, Rjjiii (talk) 03:24, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
- You're missing a comma after Ontario. Also, you don't say "Canada" after Ontario like you do the US, Taiwan, etc. Same with Johannesburg in the last sentence of the section.
- Broader pop culture
The frisbee was introduced in 1948 and initially branded the "flying saucer". Flying saucer candy was introduced in the 1950s when a Belgian producer of communion wafers had a dip in sales.
- Try to come up with another word instead of repeating "introduced" twice.
- Done, Rjjiii (talk) 03:24, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
- Try to come up with another word instead of repeating "introduced" twice.
Super Mario Land, one of Nintendo's launch titles for the original Game Boy, contained spaceships modeled on the photographs of George Adamski and set among various monuments falsely attributed to ancient astronauts, such as the Egyptian pyramids and the monolithic Moai of Easter Island.
- I think you mean "modeled after photographs by George Adamski".
- Yes, changed, Rjjiii (talk) 03:24, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
- I think you mean "modeled after photographs by George Adamski".
References
- Spot-checks (random)
- 8ab Checked
- 9 Checked
- 14ab
- "Newspapers initially reported that Arnold suspected them to be experimental Soviet aircraft". This is hinted at in East Oregonian, but it doesn't seem to say that.[2] Perhaps you were using a different source and mixed them up? I think the likely answer here is that "Newspapers initially reported that Arnold suspected them to be experimental Soviet aircraft" should be rewritten. The cited source implies that "Arnold suspected them to be experimental Soviet aircraft" based on his daughter's recollection. So the idea that "newspapers initially reported" is an error. His daughter, Kim, is telling the EO this reminiscence in 2017. So the simple answer here is to change the text to "Arnold initially suspected them to be experimental Soviet aircraft", which is true, not that newspapers initially reported them. However, if it is true that newspapers originally reported that, it's not in the EO source but somewhere else.
- I seem to have lost a citation there, but looking into it, I think I worded that poorly too, and so I revised this a good bit. WP:RS disagree on whether he thought they were from the US or USSR, so I've gone with the more general "experimental aircraft" and included a quote from Arnold. Then I've separately pinned the USSR speculation on the news media (and also foo fighter speculation) per the source cited. Went with: '
Arnold told military intelligence officers that he suspected the discs were experimental aircraft, and early newspapers reported Arnold saying, "I don't know what they were—unless they were guided missiles."[26][15] News media speculated on a Soviet origin or connection to the foo fighters seen by Allied aircraft pilots during World War II.[27]
' Rjjiii (talk) 05:33, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
- I seem to have lost a citation there, but looking into it, I think I worded that poorly too, and so I revised this a good bit. WP:RS disagree on whether he thought they were from the US or USSR, so I've gone with the more general "experimental aircraft" and included a quote from Arnold. Then I've separately pinned the USSR speculation on the news media (and also foo fighter speculation) per the source cited. Went with: '
- "Newspapers initially reported that Arnold suspected them to be experimental Soviet aircraft". This is hinted at in East Oregonian, but it doesn't seem to say that.[2] Perhaps you were using a different source and mixed them up? I think the likely answer here is that "Newspapers initially reported that Arnold suspected them to be experimental Soviet aircraft" should be rewritten. The cited source implies that "Arnold suspected them to be experimental Soviet aircraft" based on his daughter's recollection. So the idea that "newspapers initially reported" is an error. His daughter, Kim, is telling the EO this reminiscence in 2017. So the simple answer here is to change the text to "Arnold initially suspected them to be experimental Soviet aircraft", which is true, not that newspapers initially reported them. However, if it is true that newspapers originally reported that, it's not in the EO source but somewhere else.
- 26 Checked
- 37ab Checked This is on IA, so maybe link to it instead of Gbooks?
- Swapped to IA link, thanks for the heads up, Rjjiii (talk) 05:33, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
- 45 Checked
- 52 Checked I am not familiar with the Xaluan News platform, but it looks like it is used seven times on Wikipedia as a source.
- 68abc Checked I had to go into the index of the online version to find the page numbers. That's a bit confusing. Maybe link to the pages (7,9) so that other readers won't suffer.
- Oh! I actually had no idea that their visible page numbers were linkable anchors. I've added links into the full citation, a paginated scan into the full citation, and given the page number via {{rp}} for both quotes. Rjjiii (talk) 05:33, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
- 87 Checked Sourced to subject matter expert Glenn Erickson
- 113 Checked
- 121 Checked
Images
Done
- @Rjjiii: This is just a general question, and has no bearing on the review, but I found the lead image somewhat lacking in terms of interest. In terms of steelmanning, the UFO enthusiast community appears to believe that Sergio Loaiza's 1971 photo is the best image that they have. I've heard the cogent counterarguments that refute it (Mick West? I can't remember), but if I'm reading Commons:Government works (Costa Rica) correctly, it appears that their "best" image is now in the public domain (taken in 1971 by National Geography Department (IGN) of the National Registry of Costa Rica, which is only copyrighted for 50 years). Something to consider uploading and using? Viriditas (talk) 04:54, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
- @Viriditas I've uploaded the high-resolution original of Loaiza's aerial photo to the commons and used a cropped and auto-leveled version for the top image here. Regarding the Passaic photo, I checked out the newspapers since the license on the commons implies that it was published without a notice, and it was but the newspaper version is lower quality. (Uploaded and floated on this section.) I'm not sure where the CIA version is from; it looks like a scan from a book or office report. Rjjiii (talk) 21:05, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
- Nice work. Viriditas (talk) 21:38, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
- From a folkloric perspective, I'd argue to lead with File:Supposed UFO, Passaic, New Jersey (cropped).jpg -- it is "the classic flying saucer with dome" that was culturally significant. Could we do both? Feoffer (talk) 05:47, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
- Looks good to me. Viriditas (talk) 07:37, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
- From a folkloric perspective, I'd argue to lead with File:Supposed UFO, Passaic, New Jersey (cropped).jpg -- it is "the classic flying saucer with dome" that was culturally significant. Could we do both? Feoffer (talk) 05:47, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
- Nice work. Viriditas (talk) 21:38, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
- File:Supposed UFO, Passaic, New Jersey.jpg
- I think you're supposed to have a comma after New Jersey in the caption
- I added an archival link to the image, which was published on the CIA website in 2007
- The licensing and attribution is a bit strange. Those Getty images have non-commercial use attached to them, particularly when used by other sources. It is currently licensed as {{PD-US-no notice}}, however, my understanding is that Stock had the photo published by newspapers immediately after taking it, which means he holds the copyright, however, according to lore, the government took ownership of the images, in which case their appearance on the CIA site in 2007 would mean they were in the public domain. I will accept this photo as it is currently licensed, but the chain of custody is unusual.
- The caption says
A "flying saucer" on a 1929 issue of Science Wonder Stories
. That reads funny to me. Shouldn't it read: "A "flying saucer" on the cover of a 1929 issue of Science Wonder Stories?- Done, Rjjiii (talk) 21:06, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
- The caption says
- Caption seems a bit too long. Maybe try "Kenneth Arnold's July 1947 report to Army Air Forces (AAF) intelligence with sketches of craft"?
- Done, Rjjiii (talk) 21:06, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
- Caption seems a bit too long. Maybe try "Kenneth Arnold's July 1947 report to Army Air Forces (AAF) intelligence with sketches of craft"?
- File:Trent2 UFOA 600dpi.jpg
- File:Integratron-3.jpg
- File:1952 UFO Flap - Air Force frequency graph of UFO reports.png
- File:George Adamski ship 1.jpg
- File:Sears & Roebuck 742-461 TURD Gas Lantern 1930s (cropped) (cropped).jpg
- I love long captions just like you do, but the community has repeatedly warned me against using them. I think you can easily shorten this to something like: "Scientist Walther Riedel said Adamski faked this 1952 UFO photo (top) using GE light bulbs for landing struts. Adamski is believed to have also used a 1930s gas lantern. (bottom)" Or something along those lines.
- This is a good image. We get a lot of these sun dogs in Hawaii and I've captured many of them with my camera. In one shot, the digital sensor produced an artifact due to the brightness of the sunlight, and turned the sun dog blue, making it look like a flying, ice blue orb! I've been meaning to upload it but just never got around to it. I've also seen similar, sun dog-like images produced when the full moon appears behind clouds. One time, and I seriously wish I had my camera with me when it happened, the moonlight produced these "moon dogs" (I don't know what else to call them) of tiny orbs of light reflecting within a densely packed cloud. I joked at the time that it looked like a fleet of UFOs.
- Thanks, they're amazing; I think they used to be good omens back in the day. Rjjiii (ii) (talk) 23:27, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
- This is a good image. We get a lot of these sun dogs in Hawaii and I've captured many of them with my camera. In one shot, the digital sensor produced an artifact due to the brightness of the sunlight, and turned the sun dog blue, making it look like a flying, ice blue orb! I've been meaning to upload it but just never got around to it. I've also seen similar, sun dog-like images produced when the full moon appears behind clouds. One time, and I seriously wish I had my camera with me when it happened, the moonlight produced these "moon dogs" (I don't know what else to call them) of tiny orbs of light reflecting within a densely packed cloud. I joked at the time that it looked like a fleet of UFOs.
- File:UFO Sightings Chart.jpg
- File:Earth vs. the Flying Saucers (1956) by Fred F. Sears, trailer.webm
- I think the use of this image is fine, but in general, best practice is to mention the image if possible in the text. I see that you mention it farther down, but one thing that is interesting about this film is that it is loosely based on the book by Donald Keyhoe titled Flying Saucers from Outer Space (1953). I read the book and wasn't that impressed. It felt like a screenplay! Perhaps Kehoe and his book could be mentioned in the "Film and television" section where you discuss the film? If memory serves, Kehoe's book was also used recently to inform the show Project Blue Book (TV series) (2019), which is actually quite good, if you haven't seen it.
- I have instead tried to work a mention of it into that section's intro as an example. Also, Project Blue Book was fun but I always get hung up trying to watch shows that do nonfiction but with fictional elements. I had the same hangup with Strange Angel about Jack Parsons, Rjjiii (ii) (talk) 23:27, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
- I think the use of this image is fine, but in general, best practice is to mention the image if possible in the text. I see that you mention it farther down, but one thing that is interesting about this film is that it is loosely based on the book by Donald Keyhoe titled Flying Saucers from Outer Space (1953). I read the book and wasn't that impressed. It felt like a screenplay! Perhaps Kehoe and his book could be mentioned in the "Film and television" section where you discuss the film? If memory serves, Kehoe's book was also used recently to inform the show Project Blue Book (TV series) (2019), which is actually quite good, if you haven't seen it.
- File:Amazing Stories August 1946 back cover.png
- File:Amazing Stories October 1957.jpg
- File:Encina Drive-in Ad - 4 May 1956, CA.jpg
- You could revise this caption a bit to read: "Film poster for a drive-in theater showing Forbidden Planet
- It's possible to shorten this caption: "A flying saucer leaves its mothership in Plan 9 from Outer Space (1957)". You don't need to specify small and larger as its implied by "mothership".
- Great image, and I totally get that the Theme Building looks like a saucer when seen from below, however the source says only that it looks like a "landing spaceship". Would be nice to get further clarification on this. I think it's self-evident when you compare it to the sources for the Space Needle that these architectural works are intended to reflect that of a flying saucer, but I just wonder if we can get another source on this that goes beyond "landing spaceship", which I think is synonymous with "flying saucer", but others might nitpick on that. Personally, I don't think you should do anything, but it is something to consider. For example, Winter 2009, p. 77 specifies it was intended to resemble a "flying saucer". You could use that. There are several others as well.