The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Bensci54 (talk) 16:47, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Asphalt concrete → Asphalt
• Asphalt → Asphalt (disambiguation)

Most people call it asphalt. I rarely hear people say asphalt concrete. 2600:1700:6180:6290:DBCD:6145:4378:48BF (talk) 14:27, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Weak oppose Most people do call it asphalt. However they call a lot of things asphalt too, such as chipseal, bitumen, asphaltum. We should stay with precision here. Asphalt concrete is clear and unambiguous as a concept (which is what we most care about in a name). 'Asphalt' otherwise has too many potential interpretations. Andy Dingley (talk) 15:43, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak oppose I've only heard it just "Asphalt" but the concrete has 13,029 views but Bitumen has 19,818, the series has 3,960, the 1929 film has 209, the novel has 71, the 1964 film has 28 and the place in Kentucky has 26[[1]]. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:24, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose – If I was looking for info on asphalt, I'd really appreciate ending up at this disambig page, so I could see that I might be looking either for bitumen or asphalt concrete, even if I didn't know it was called that. Disambiguation is good. And "Most people call it X" is not a valid rationale for a primarytopic takeover. Dicklyon (talk) 03:42, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment - Although my initial reaction is to oppose the move and keep the article as "Asphalt concrete," looking at the criteria and thinking about it seems like it favors the move. Can someone who opposes the move tell me why I'm thinking about them wrong?

 · Recognizability: Favors the move, asphalt is more recognizable than asphalt concrete, a lay person might actually think they were at the wrong article (maybe?)

 · Naturalness: Favors the move, most people call it asphalt

 · Precision: Disfavors the move, asphalt concrete is technically correct; however, the things it disambiguates from are not terribly likely sources of confusion (e.g. s chipseal, bitumen, asphaltum cited above)

 · Concision: Favors the move, asphalt is more concise

 · Consistency: Favors the move, the Concrete article is chiefly about cement concrete (cementicious concrete? Portland cement ‑concrete? idk the formalized nomenclature) but there is no Cement concrete article (nor other variants that I could find), nor redirects. Also, asphalt does not appear in Template:Concrete navbox which seems a little surprising all-around and is maybe neither here-nor-there.

thanks jhawkinson (talk) 04:48, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think that would be obviously right if the term was not ambiguous. But I find a dictionary says "noun. 1. a brown or black, tarlike, bituminous substance that consists mainly of hydrocarbons, found in large flat beds or made by refining petroleum. 2. a mixture of this with sand or gravel, for cementing, paving, roofing, etc." To disambiguation between meanings 1 and 2, we have the disambig page at Asphalt; that is, we don't treat either topic as primary over the others. Dicklyon (talk) 04:53, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A number of dictionaries seem to list that as the first sense. I find this very confusing, since in most dictionaries, or so I understand [and now cannot find documentary support for], the first definition is supposed to be the most common one. And my experience is that unless you're in the petroleum industry, nobody ever talks about the first sense. I'm not sure how to resolve this apparent conflict between dictionaries and my understanding of reality. jhawkinson (talk) 05:28, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I, too, most commonly associate the term "asphalt" with pavement, though I'm also aware that that's not the original meaning of the term asphalt, and I know that that kind of pavement goes by other names in other places. Our experiences are not good reason for a primarytopic takeover. Dicklyon (talk) 05:49, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Most people don't know what 'asphalt' is. They think it's chipseal, because that's what their house front drive is, they don't realise that the stuff they drive over is different. Andy Dingley (talk) 09:13, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well, that's only true of people who live in [rural?] areas where chipseal is a thing. "Most people" don't live in such places, since cities are denser and have more people (more than half the world's population, &c.). But we can conclude from your statement that yeah, people are different and it's dangerous to use the personal experience of editors to inform our editorial choices…aka WP:NOR. (Also, I don't think the title of this article really affects people who are confused about chipseal — keeping it "asphalt concrete" instead of "asphalt" isn't going to change the first derivative of the number of people who think chipseal is asphalt, I don't think!). As to my above comment about "the first definition is supposed to be the most common one," I think I was confusing pronounciation where that's true with definitions where it's not. In many dictionaries, the senses/definitions are sorted chronologically by date of introduction. Perhaps I should have [[citation needed]] tagged myself more aggresively :) jhawkinson (talk) 13:00, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose. This is a textbook example of what disambiguation is for. You cannot know if a link to this page or a reader was looking for asphalt concrete or bitumen, or if they even know themselves. —Xezbeth (talk) 06:51, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong oppose per the consensus that formed at Talk:Bitumen#Requested move 3 January 2023 (and all the confusion involving fixing a ton of redirects and links after the discussion's move was completed ... which is all documented there.) There is WP:NOPRIMARY for "asphalt", and this discussion has not provided sufficient evidence otherwise. Steel1943 (talk) 20:46, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]