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The change that's being proposed by @Taratal to emphasis the kind to the far right in the lead is undue. The term is not even used in the article. Golikom (talk) 03:08, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your proposed change of gender-critical feminism (the article's actual title) to "radical critiques of transgender rights within certain feminist discourses" is not "established," has no consensus, is very badly worded and was literally added days ago with the misleading edit summary 'Minor changes," and is only pushed by you. --Tataral (talk) 15:48, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's not the only thing you changed in the lead - you've added undue weight to the far right connection. and regardless you need to respect WP:BRD and discuss after you've been reverted. The lead has stood like that for three weeks with a number of subsequent edits.Golikom (talk) 15:50, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is exceedingly well supported by the content of the article and there is nothing undue about it, and it is the established version, having been in the article for ages, in fact years,[1] and was only removed recently with a blatantly false, deceptive edit summary. You need to bring your proposal to change that up on talk instead of edit warring. --Tataral (talk) 15:56, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The link to gender-critical feminism should indeed be shown as "gender-critical feminism" rather than the obfuscatory phrase "radical critiques of transgender rights within certain feminist discourses" which the average reader will find confusing.

Let's look at the longer phrase and see why it is so bad. First up, I'm not saying that it was designed to confuse but it is both over-long and unhelpfully vague which renders it confusing. The fact it says we are "certain" what we are referring to but doesn't actually say what that is is just withholding known information from the reader. Also the word radical is misplaced. "Radical Feminism" is the name of a movement but this does not speak of Radical Feminism it speaks of "radical critiques" and who is to say that these particular "critiques" are actually radical? The whole thing seems deeply conservative to me and notable people have said the same. This gets us into a big mess of argument that we just don't need to have if we stick to the original wording.

Now, I'm not a fan of the gender-critical feminism article having that title either. The Gender Critical movement has some of its roots in Radical Feminism but is now a completely separate thing with a mix of feminists, open anti-feminists and people entirely indifferent to feminism among its ranks. Even so, I am not going to argue against the link showing the title of the article because blind links are confusing, unhelpful to our readers and because this is not the right place to argue about the title of a completely different article. --DanielRigal (talk) 16:33, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The term "far right" has been included in the lead for nearly two years now and has remained so since ([2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8]). The WP:ONUS is on Golikom to establish consensus for any change. EvergreenFir (talk) 17:29, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yep. I neglected to mention that bit as it is so obvious. We are not censoring "far-right" from the lead. If it is in the body it goes in the lead. The other link, to far-right populism overlaps somewhat but does not make it redundant. --DanielRigal (talk) 17:39, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm looking at the first few sentences and I think there are some more problems than just those in the above section. After trying to make sense of the edit history for a bit, I can't be bothered to work out who first added what. Let's not make this personal anyway. Let's just look at what I think is badly worded right now and see if we can improve it. (Note: I'm using this pretty randomly chosen version as my point of comparison. It is from about three months ago.)

• The anti-gender movement is a global phenomenon - "global phenomenon" can be read as promotional (although I'm sure that wasn't intentional). Also "phenomenon" is a very vague term and we should try to be specific whenever we can. The older version says The anti-gender movement is an international movement and I'd definitely favour a return to that. If that sounds too organised then maybe adding "loosely organised" or "informal" would help.
• that opposes concepts often referred to as - "concepts" implies that this is an intellectual disagreement rather than an opposition to people's human rights. Older versions used opposes what it refers to as. The old version seems better as it doesn't define these as concepts and it puts the terminology choice on the movement not on the world in general. Of course, that means that the reader has to read further to understand what is actually going on but that is better than to risk giving a misleading impression from the outset.
• commonly used by the movement to critique a range of issues - I don't like the use of "critique". It is not in the body at all and it seems to make this sound like a civilised academic disagreement rather than an anti human rights movement. I am not sure if there is a better word or whether it would be better to go back to an older wording that omitted it and just let "opposes" do all the lifting. --DanielRigal (talk) 17:33, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Too many statements with no citation. But I can't open to edit it. Pete unseth (talk) 14:44, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It got fully protected due to a stupid edit war. It's only for a week. If you have valid citations for any uncited content then please drop them here, either as an edit request or just as a list to be added later. --DanielRigal (talk) 16:39, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]