This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Conservatism Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Conservatism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of conservatism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ConservatismWikipedia:WikiProject ConservatismTemplate:WikiProject ConservatismConservatism Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. Biography: Politics and Government This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography This article is supported by the politics and government work group (assessed as Low-importance). Pakistan: Balochistan Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pakistan, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Pakistan on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PakistanWikipedia:WikiProject PakistanTemplate:WikiProject PakistanPakistan Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by WikiProject Balochistan, Pakistan (assessed as Top-importance).

Robert 04:09, 25 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

This article is obviously filled with POV and needs to be cleaned up--Paranda 22:01, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Nawab Muhammad Akbar Khan Bugti was a HERO of Pakistan, specially for Balochistan and Baloch Peoples, Baloch tribe man are very hard working and face the hardships with boldly. They love their land more then their lives. Every time cunner and rubber government of pakistan keep cunning them and keep Baloch tribe in darkness. From SUI Gas field country earn 100000 of dollars per day, but unfortunately Baloch peoples couldn't get any benefit even a clean drinking water from the government. Every time government kill the baloch peoples and spent money on their own luxries. Nawab Akbar Buagi was killed with gunship and bombing helicopters were used on 27th August 2006. Dead body militry took and still they keep it in secrete. In all over the country specially Balochistan Province still burning. so many peoples were killed and arrested, The result of Bugti killing will be is very strick and long lasting battle will be between government and Balochistan peoples. Story is very lengthy but I try to short it.

"Written by Domki Baloch"

Bugti has made a really good quote in the economist "What is better than seeing your enemies driven before you and then taking their women to bed" Economist July 1, 2006 He is not a warlord at least they have morals, he is a crook. 64.173.196.113 22:44, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Reply: well he also proudly claims to have killed his first victim at age 12 and murdered many others. He also controls a private militia and tries to exercise power over an area. I think this qualifies him a warlord. Most warlords are also thieves. 159.53.46.141 01:13, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

This article is full of a lot of extras which are not part of a biography. There are a lot of missing quotes etc. 67.118.46.150 18:42, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

I edited the article extensively. But there is someone who keeps reverting the article back to its earlier biased version. Even in its current state, there's a lot more that can be added. Sandbreak 16:30, 7 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well I think Akbar Bugti was enemy of his own people. It is evident from his lavish style of living his personal jets and five star residence. and this all was on the royalty of the minerals which I think was the right of whole Blouch nation striving to keep both ends meeting under his tyrant rule. He forbade the general Blouch people from getting education whilst himself went to Oxford. This hippocratic nature of his actions led him to eventual suicide alone in a cave — Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.177.154.127 (talk) 16:07, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

better. :) Spinster678 06:10, 8 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The quotes from Bugti are from the Economist why do you dont want those? 69.239.131.66 18:22, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

I have removed some unsourced material that was being used for propoganda purposes by anti-Musharraf groups. I will drop my claim and revert the article if anyone has any proof. 74.68.39.209 (talk) 07:25, 17 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Well I think Akbar Bugti was enemy of his own people. It is evident from his lavish style of living his personal jets and five star residence. and this all was on the royalty of the minerals which I think was the right of whole Blouch nation striving to keep both ends meeting under his tyrant rule. He forbade the general Blouch people from getting education whilst himself went to Oxford. This hippocratic nature of his actions led him to eventual suicide alone in a cave. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.177.154.127 (talk) 16:04, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Someone keeps vandalizing this page with blatant POV statements and propaganda. I did my best to get rid of all the hyperbolic statements but that same person reverted it. Just take a look at the terrible grammar of the article to figure out that this isn't encyclopedic quality. Also, there are a ton of factual errors that im not going to bother dealing with right now. I just wish that people who talk about things on the talk page rather than using wikipedia as their propaganda machine. Sandbreak 16:56, 11 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The only one vandalising is Sandblast or whatever. The section is disupted and that should be listed. 69.239.131.66 18:12, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Biography should only have historical facts not propaganda! 64.173.196.127 01:18, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Well I think Akbar Bugti was enemy of his own people. It is evident from his lavish style of living his personal jets and five star residence. and this all was on the royalty of the minerals which I think was the right of whole Blouch nation striving to keep both ends meeting under his tyrant rule. He forbade the general Blouch people from getting education whilst himself went to Oxford. This hippocratic nature of his actions led him to eventual suicide alone in a cave.

What a bunch of garbage. This page is crying out for an edit. I have twice attempted to rewrite this page but someone keeps on reverting them. Also, im assuming that this same person, keeps deleting any comments on the talk page so as to completely ban discussion on the topic. Sandbreak 16:42, 16 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have tried time and time again to edit this page but someone continues to vandalize this page....This page may have to be protected. Sandbreak 15:37, 18 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

what do you think will happen, will akber bugti win or lose this war??? 202.70.148.45 09:07, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

government is showing fake press conferences in which so called 'Bugti Commanders' are laying down their arms and switching over to the governments side, its all a big farce. Bugti's resistance force is strong AlhumduLillah and fighting in all corners of Balochistan!!!!! Spinster678 16:40, 21 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

i donot agree what is written above infact Nawab's grip on its people is going loose day by day because you cannot cheat people too long. Sui will progress & the cheater will be punished thats sure. King Tanoli 17:56, 22 July 2006

I myself have edited this page to include only facts but Spinster678 keeps vandalizing it with his pro-Bugti nonsense. On this happy occasion of Bugti's death,I will edit this page again.

A user named Khoikhoi keeps meddling in this article without knowing anything about Akbar Bugti. I keep putting in an article that has not POV but it keeps being deleted by Khoikhoi and a couple of other pro-Bugti fanatics. Both of them need to stay away from this article.

Please review WP:NPA and WP:CIVIL. Now, tell me what part of the article is POV please. —Khoikhoi 23:45, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ha ha ha, I love this article! The bizarre grammar and capitalization, the un-encyclopedic tone, the frequent non-sequiturs... this is comedy gold! My favorites: "...but he lives by laws more than a thousand years old", "(We must keep in mind that one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter)"...

I also dont agree with the author of this clearly biased article. I'm not a fan of Mr Bugti but i've at least attempted to write this article in a non-biased manner. The author has consistently added his own POV into the article.

Have a nice day! Sandbreak 18:43, 22 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hey click on this link or open in media player to listen to his interview after 3rd. July 2006 when a third attempt was made on his life by pakistan army which his tribesmen foiled!!! http://balochwarna.org/bvoice/audio/Interview%20of%20Nawab%20Bugti%20in%20detail%20about%20Army%20operation%20in%20Dera%20Bugti.wma 202.70.152.180 15:15, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Did i not predict that this page would be vandalized. Unfortunately, some don't realize that wikipedia is an Encyclopedia which is commited to neutrality. It isn't that hard to understand. Sandbreak 17:29, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

His familly found out about this page and i am sure about that his son(shahzwar) could have done it

Does anyone know what his name is in the Balochi language? We have his Urdu name, but it would also be good if we could have it in his native tongue. —Khoikhoi 23:34, 26 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

His name is the same in Urdu and Balochi or any other language for that matter.

I don't understand - Urdu is an Indo-Aryan language while Balochi is an Iranian language. Wouldn't his name be pronounced (hence spelled) differently? They're different languages. —Khoikhoi 21:26, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

For example, what language is this? —Khoikhoi 21:30, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

nothing about his personal jails, and marriages of women with Koran? That's amazing.

Spinster678 reverted the article to a much earlier version, thus deleting everyone's edits. Spinster, this is the place to explain what your grievances are. Please don't do that again. —Khoikhoi 08:13, 28 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have restored the article to the updated version that contains much more information about his death, and less irrelevant info about provinces of Pakistan. I have asked Spinster repeatedly what his issues are but he still has not replied... —Khoikhoi 02:18, 29 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Shouldn't this be moved to Akbar Bugti or Akbar Shahbaz Bugti? We don't see the Arnold Schwarzenegger article at "Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger". —Khoikhoi 02:21, 29 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• "Akbar Bugti".--16:13, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

This is the most biased article on wikipedia. Akbar Bugti killed so many of his own people how can he be potrayed as a hero. Please redo and give a true picture.

this is not true 103.209.53.227 (talk) 18:21, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This has just got to be the most baised piece of writing on Wikipedia. It's full of pro-Bugti propaganda and that too written as if scribbled by an emotional Balochi teen. Kindly someone give this piece a scrubbing.

If thats what I am, I wonder what that makes you (since you're anti-Bugti), I really do!

I dont know who mr Bugti is, heard about him on tv and thought should check it out here. but it seems article is biased.

it needs to be edited and POVs need to be cut out of it.

This article is very biased. It is almost as if the author is proud that Bugti killed so many people. Disgrace to the Wikipedia. Please scrub.

Hold your horses boys, whats the rush? let the body be found then change the profile as much as you please! :) let it be for now, hes not JIMMY HOFFA! wait for the body to be found..

Speaking as someone who doesn't particularly have an opinion on this fellow, his movement, or anything other than the quality of the article one way or the other, I'm putting in a request for clean-up. This is quite possibly the sloppiest, poorly-written, non-biographical-contented, non-NPOV "biography" article I've ever seen on Wikipedia. Considering that it concerns a current event, to say it needs attention is the understatement of the century (or at least the day). Hiddekel 15:06, 30 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I removed my request, as 69.193.105.21's revert seems to have cleaned up the article considerably on its own. Hiddekel 16:40, 30 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I was surprised to see this comment - had spent a good bit of time 28 august copy-editing it - and realized it had gone through many reverts and re-reverts - but as of now it seems to be holding up ... but it still needs more references and ground data. Mukerjee 05:21, 1 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Was Bugti an Islamist cleric who loved the Sharia?--Patchouli 15:21, 30 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Reply: Actually no because Sharia doesn't permit one to have his own personal jails.

• "Hezbollah guerrillas took the two soldiers in a cross-border raid on July 12, which prompted 34 days of Israeli airstrikes in Lebanon."[1] Hassan Nasrallah has personal jails operating under the auspices of Hezbollah.--16:08, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Bugti was never the religious type of man, he styled himself as a Baluch nationalist and one may not understand it, but having long facial hair is a male tradition among the Baluch people who regard the beard and moustache as a sense of pride and seniority in their tribal clans, nothing to do religion just because Baluch sardars have beards. One can safely assume Nawab Akbar Bugti was a secular nationalist who actually despised the involvement of clerics in politics.Suprah™ 11:16, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You are correct. I met him personally a couple of times at the house of Pir Najmuddin Al-Gilani located at Amir Khusro Rd, Karachi. Pir Sahib had married to his relative. Bugti's favorite pastime there was to make fun of Islam, concept of God (called him a Baloch), and Rasulallah SAW (said he made up the Quran). Bugti's politics was about Baloch nationalism, so he displayed Baloch icons like a big beard. It had nothing to do with Islam, as he did not perform the other requirement ie trim his moustaches. Hassanfarooqi (talk) 16:22, 29 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Beard Is Gift to Balouch by God and it Pride of Balouch.Khalidkhoso 04:49, 27 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Nothing about his personal jails, and how Bugti and his clan used to torture his rivals?

Also...I am surprised to see that there is nothing about force marriages of women to Koran? It is a common practice among Waderas and Nawabs. They usually force their female family members to marry to Koran (if there is mo male available from the family)so that the family wealth won't go outside of family.

Firstly son i myself am related to the tribe and theres no such thing as marriage with quran.... you should do your research from some other source my friend & secondly theres no such thing to keep the wealth in the family. If you are talking about inidan nawabs,,, then I cant say but in Baluchistan nothing like this ever happened atleast not in bugti tribe where someone forced some body to get married with Quran....

Yes, these issues should be included in the article, --Uchohan 04:53, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Bugti had his own militia like Hassan Nasrallah. How come no one talks about Hezbollah's jails used to keep captured Israelis? Therefore, there is no need to single out Bugti.--16:18, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Marriage to Quran is the culture of Baloch in Sindh only. When Bugtis helped the British crush the Hur uprising in Sindh, and kill their leader i.e. Pir Pagara of the time, they were awarded big land in Sindh.

What is also not mentioned is how Bugti killed and exiled the majority of Bugti tribe because they belonged to rival clan. Also no mention of his involvement of murder of Nationalist Dr. Khan Sahib. No mention of his betrayal of Nationalist like Sardar Mengal and Ghous Bakh Bizenjo. How can this man be dubbed Baloch national when he was clearly a British loyal and a traitor to Baloch people. Hassanfarooqi (talk) 16:32, 29 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I am quite surprised that so many Pakistanis believe there own leaders propaganda considering Musharraf is a dictator an as such cannot be anything but a tyrant.

Why should the Balooch people tolerate their gas being exported when they see none of the benefit? Why should they not fight back when injustice is done to them, it seems to me that the Punjabis have lost their Islamic values in their migration from India.

Such a comment is absolutely inappropriate for an encyclopedia discussion to have.--Uchohan 04:40, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

reply: Pakistanis understand their country quite well and none can brainwash them, they also don't believe Musharraf is a dictator.

RE: "it seems to me that the Punjabis have lost their Islamic values"

I don't see what the good of Islamic values are. Iranians voted for an Islamic theocracy in March 1979, but they get no share of that nation's oil revenues while Kuwaitis do.--08:56, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

According to this article he liked to juice journalists up with crazy stories, especially that he went to Oxford and that he killed a man when he was 11 or 12. Which is pretty cool, actually :-D

Hi, I changed the article to reflect this. Thanks a lot for the notice. TheFireTones 17:59, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

To anon editors, please stop adding Bugti's extended family tree. A Wikipedia article is not the place for this. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 14:16, 19 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. I have just deleted a large amount of it. Rubywine (talk) 08:03, 9 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

On 8 November 2010, Zhanzhao deleted a large amount of unsourced material concerning numerous Human rights violations committed by Bugti which had been contributed by an anonymous user. His submit comment did not even mention the nature of the content deleted. A couple of seconds of googling shows that the material can be sourced to 2006 reports published (amongst other places) on the Pakistani Defence Forum, a site owned by the Pakistani army, and that the allegations are attributed to government factsheets. There may very well be a plagiarism issue here, and I'm not equipped to comment on Wikipedia policy in this situation. However given the serious nature of the material, I think it would have been better (at the very least) to have raised the issue here for discussion, and (perhaps after seeking guidance) to have applied tags calling for sources and a rewrite. I have brought these comments to Zhanzhao's attention on his Talk page. Rubywine (talk) 08:51, 9 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for notifying me about this discussion. The reason I deleted the content was that 1) It was really just a big list of alleged violations, and 2) I use the word alleged because the whole section as it was previously added was without any reference or sourcing at all, as can be seen from the original edit. At face value it appeared to be a COATRACK edit (huge chunk of text against the subject without any reference), which was why I undid the edit. On top of that, the list as it was added is too overly detailed, which practically doubled the article size and does not adhere to WP:Summary, WP:INDISCRIMINATE nor WP:NOT#STATS. Hope that clears it up. The content basically needs to be referenced and summarized for easier reading. Zhanzhao (talk) 14:55, 9 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your reply. Yes I can see that the unreferenced material failed to meet Wikipedia rules, and I can also see that what you did is normal practice. Many contributions are deleted because they don't come up to scratch. However I think a big list of alleged human rights violations is a really important thing to acknowledge, even if you just mention in your submit comment while deleting, and at least drop a note on the talk page of the contributor, so they know what they've done wrong. Rubywine (talk) 18:26, 10 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Looking through the recent history of edits on this article, I can see that the incident above is not unusual. There is a pattern of people deleting contributions from anonymous users without comment. I'm talking here about unsourced anonymous contributions written in poor English, containing relevant content, which appear to have been submitted in good faith. I think it's absolutely wrong to delete such contributions without comment. Some people with knowledge of this region are going to have limited English skills, and little knowledge of Wikipedia's requirements. Deleting the work of non-native speakers or inexperienced editors without comment is counterproductive. We should encourage those who attempt to contribute meaningful content in good faith. They should be offered assistance in reaching the required standards, not censored and ignored. Rubywine (talk) 10:23, 9 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I put an npov tag on the death section, and added a bit which states that the circumstances are unclear. I hope that this will be sufficient for the moment. 69.221.94.250 20:06, 28 August 2006 (UTC) (aka Lockesdonkey)[reply]

User:69.193.105.21 deleted my NPOV tag. This is out of protocol. I am reinstating it. Whether or not the assertions made by 69.193.105.21's sources are true is immaterial; it has to be verified and accurately, fairly, and objectively represent all sides of the issue, which these sources do not do. I would edit it myself for neutrality, but lacking any knowledge of Bugti's existance until a few hours ago, and knowing nothing about his death except that it is the result of Pakistani government action, I feel I am unqualified. Lockesdonkey 22:53, 28 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

some independent sources that we can use

1. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/5304594.stm
2. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/26/minister-resigns-pakistan-accuses-army
3. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/aug/28/pakistan.mainsection
4. http://www.rediff.com/news/report/baloch/20060827.htm --ÐℬigXЯaɣ 13:11, 24 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 external links on Akbar Bugti. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120419194515/http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006%5C08%5C27%5Cstory_27-8-2006_pg1_1 to http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006\08\27\story_27-8-2006_pg1_1
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20091001154354/http://www.dawn.com:80/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/provinces/04-some-balochis-support-the-sardari-system-others-direct-democracy-qs-10 to http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/provinces/04-some-balochis-support-the-sardari-system-others-direct-democracy-qs-10

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 02:15, 14 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Akbar Bugti. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070929133633/http://www.gulfnews.com/opinion/columns/world/10064652.html to http://www.gulfnews.com/opinion/columns/world/10064652.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 13:35, 8 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@JalenFolf:, Akbar Bugti is the primary topic. See the test results carried out by me per WP:PTOPIC. Ngram results + Wikipedia page views. Thanks. Störm (talk) 14:33, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Also pinging @Uanfala: regarding this, as they tagged the resulting redirect for speedy deletion. I have no opinion regarding the matter at this time. Jalen Folf (talk) 14:36, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Uanfala:, Wikipedia page views from 2015 to 2019, and pie chart. Clearly Akbar Bugti is primary topic. He is sometimes known as the founder of Baloch movement. Störm (talk) 14:40, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The results are not comparable as the tribe is usually referred to by the bare term "Bugti", whereas Akbar Bugti is a partial title match. Still, people are sometimes referred to using just their surname (or equivalent) and it might be that some (large?) proportion of readers who type "Bugti" into the search box are actually looking for Mr Akbar, but I don't see how this can be estimated from the available data. An additional point is that primary topics require long-term significance, and that's a lot easier to see in ethnic groups than in individuals. At any rate, when the move is reversed, Störm, you might want to start an WP:RM discussion. – Uanfala (talk) 14:44, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, there is a way to get relevant usage data: by comparing the page views for the current primary topic article (the tribe) vs. the dab page at Bugti (disambiguation). This can help us estimate what proportion of readers who arrive at the primary article click through to the dab page. There's no straightforward way to interpret this data (as a lot of the traffic comes from incoming links and so is irrelevant), but if the views for the dab page are somewhere around 1/5th (or more) of those of the tribe, then that would be an indication that the tribe is not the primary topic. We don't have this data yet, as a hatnote to the dab was only added now [2], but there should be enough of it in a couple of weeks. – Uanfala (talk) 14:55, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) Störm, I am familiar with the topic area and my thoughts are similar to Uanfala's first comment. Currently the Term Bugti redirects to the dab page. IMHO I would prefer Bugti to redirect to Akbar Bugti's page with a hatnote to the dab page. AKB has 6k Page views and the nearest competitor is BAB with 1.5k page views. --DBigXrayᗙ 15:03, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

DBigXray I did it what you said later, but was reverted by JalenFolf. I also think, for time being, we should redirect it to Akbar Bugti. But, Uanfala is in favor of WP:RM. Störm (talk) 15:19, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Störm, As I see the thread above, no one has given a strong justification for objecting to redirect Bugti To AKB. JalenFolf has no opinion. Uanfala seems to be ok for the redirect to AKB. I am in support for the redirect to AKB. So there is a rough consensus in support of the redirect to AKB. I dont see a reason to start an RM or another discussion, unless someone has a justification for not redirecting this to AKB. FWIW I dont believe that the tribe article can be a Primary topic, but if later on someone has an evidence for that they may present it and start an RfD for the Bugti redirect. For now we should be good to redirect it to AKB. --DBigXrayᗙ 16:09, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

DBigXray Done. Störm (talk) 16:14, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Störm, thanks. DBigXrayᗙ 17:19, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I must have expressed myself unclearly. I don't see a case for AKB being the primary topic. Again, feel free to start an RM, but until we've got consensus, the status quo with the tribe at the primary topic should remain. – Uanfala (talk) 19:04, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Uanfala what kind of hits (Results) do you get when you search bugti? I would be interested to know as it would be useful for the discussion. DBigXrayᗙ 19:17, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

What hits I get when searching for Bugti? On google books: various, either about the tribe or about various people with the name (not confined to AKbar). – Uanfala (talk) 19:20, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I have the same feelings as Uanfala. It is complete news to me that "Bugti" without any qualification is supposed to mean Akbar Bugti. Whoever said that? -- Kautilya3 (talk) 20:31, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Kautilya3 to be clear, I dont have strong feelings here, but based on the hits as I mentioned above AKB deserves this PM position. IMHO the appropriate position for the tribe should be Bugti tribe--DBigXrayᗙ 15:50, 5 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• The tribe is back at the primary topic. DBigXray, Störm: if you would like to have it moved, you can start an RM. – Uanfala (talk) 15:38, 5 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Uanfala I have huge respect for you, but I am sad to admit that you have let me down here by edit warring over this, against consensus without even making a reasonable fact based justification for it. Please explain (with links/numbers) why it deserves to be the PM. After which we will decide if/how to proceed. --DBigXrayᗙ 15:46, 5 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'm afraid I really don't have much to add to what I've already written above. The pageviews presented are not relevant here as the tribe is the only entity known simply as "Bugti" (though I did point out a way to get meaningful usage statistics and will be more than happy to change my opinion if they suggest so). And, if I can indulge in a bit of pedantry, when an editor moves a long-standing primary article and they're reverted, then the burden is on them to gain consensus and not on others to defend the status quo. As for the tribe's title, WP:NCET is the relevant guideline; Bugti appears to be preferable, and if it ultimately gets decided that it's not the primary topic, then the next best one is Bugti tribe. – Uanfala (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 21:02, 5 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Just adding that I too would have preferred if consensus were reached here in an informal way, without recourse to wikipedia's occasionally fickle formal discussion mechanisms, but I think the way they bring in third-party input can be helpful when the editors already involved appear to be talking at cross purposes. – Uanfala (talk) 13:10, 6 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Uanfala all right. lets return to this discussion after a couple of weeks or a months time. By then we will have that needed stats. regards. --DBigXrayᗙ 14:31, 12 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Well, Bugti is the tribe, with some 180,000 members, every one of whom is probably called "Bugti" or qualifies to be called "Bugti". All the other uses of "Bugti" derive from this. So, logically, the tribe is the primary topic.

That is not so for Gandhi, Nehru or Bhutto, picking three prominent examples, where the last name without qualification means the individuals concerned. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 16:06, 5 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

FYI Bugti had a page view count of 600 while AKB has more than 10 times more count. Störm has already made some very strong arguments to which I agree so I am not repeating them. If the article is about the tribe, it should contain the qualifier tribe per WP:NDESC--DBigXrayᗙ 19:04, 5 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Kautilya3, DBigXray, What Gandhi is for India, or Jinnah is for Pakistan, in the same way, Bugti is for Balochistan/Baloch nationalism. Störm (talk) 19:16, 5 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Page views etc are not relevent to the issue. What we need is evidence that "Bugti" mentioned without any qualification refers to Akbar Bugti. I haven't see any of that. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 19:28, 5 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Why 2 locks Were Attached To Nawabs Coffin And Did None was Allowed To Watch The Last View Of Nawabs Face Or Body Was There Any Problem With the Body.face or were There Any Other Excuse Because There was Much Hardwork Were Putt To Find The Body Of Nawab! Then if After The Hardwork Body were Founded. Then Why No One Was Allowed To View His Face Even He Was Not A Murderer ... thief .or A Robber He Was A Gentle Wealthy And A Good Strength Good dealing With Honest Person Then why None Seemed His Face Nothing Just For Confirming That Was The Body Of Nawab Sahab Why His Relatives. His Family Members Were Also Not Allowed Or Not Viewable Of His Body Why ?? Was there A Reason Behind . announcing And Immediately Putting Or sealing the Body In A Coffin With 2 Locks On It Why ? its Still Not Expressed Why its Done Very Quickly even Much Hardwork Was Putten To Found The Body It was Better To Make more And More Videos And Photos To Share Them Then Others May Also Take Their Foot Back After Watching The Pictures Of Nawab Sahab Then Why Even Much Robbers Thieves And Riots Of Balochistan Should Be Putten Fown By Making A Conference After Founding Nawab sahabs Dead Body Much Riots Should Go down And Never Appeares It Means no one Wants That at That time To Prevent Balochistan From Riots And Robbers .Althought It Is Still A Mystery That Is Nawab Akbar Bugti Buried in or Still A live At Any Place No One Knows Allah Better Knows By-Muhammad Abubakar Mazari 39.48.67.121 (talk) 18:34, 23 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]