Homeopathy was one of the Natural sciences good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones Date Process Result September 14, 2006 Good article nominee Not listed September 27, 2007 Good article nominee Listed October 8, 2007 Good article reassessment Delisted October 13, 2007 Good article reassessment Delisted October 19, 2007 Peer review Reviewed October 25, 2007 Good article nominee Listed February 9, 2008 Peer review Reviewed March 2, 2009 Peer review Reviewed April 4, 2009 Featured article candidate Not promoted November 2, 2012 Good article reassessment Delisted Current status: Delisted good article

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The summary section makes a sweeping comment - "large-scale studies have found homeopathy to be no more effective than a placebo, suggesting that any positive feelings that follow treatment are only due to the placebo effect and normal recovery from illness"

However, later in the article there is mention of an FDA ruling which says - "The FDA cited the growth of sales of over the counter homeopathic medicines, $2.7 billion as of 2007, many labeled as "natural, safe, and effective." As per the article further here the matter is still subjudice.

In this context, the summary is not fairly representing the issue of controversy around Homeopathy. The line in the summary quoted above should be followed by an additional disclaimer that "On April 20–21, 2015, the FDA held a hearing on homeopathic product regulation and the matter is currently being discussed." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kulkarninikhil (talk • contribs) 08:08, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You can't be serious. "Many labeled as 'natural, safe, and effective'". You're comparing the findings of meta-analyses of clinical trials with the marketing claims of homeopathy distributors and claiming this presents some kind of controversy? One statement comes from reliable sources, the other is a marketing phrase. That the FDA has dragged its feet on regulating homeopathy is rather irrelevant. Someguy1221 (talk) 09:33, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Kulkarnininikhil that the intro as currently written is not a neutral representation of the article text. Cla68 (talk) 15:34, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The article is neutral in keeping with WP:NPOV. Neutral does not mean "equal time", nor is it meant to reflect popular opinion. The bulk of scientific evidence paints homeopathy as a fringe belief. EditorFormerlyKnownAsPuddin' (talk) 15:45, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Is homeopathy considered to be a fringe belief in India? Cla68 (talk) 16:23, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

How does the above comment help to improve the article? -Roxy the dog™ woof 17:33, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Is creationism considered a fringe belief in Louisiana? Guy (Help!) 17:48, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Because, if homeopathy is not considered to be a fringe practice in India, one of the biggest and most populated countries in the world, then it undermines the blanket statement that homeopathy is considered to be a fringe practice. So, again, is homeopathy considered to be a fringe practice in India? Cla68 (talk) 17:51, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I've said this to you before, your poor understanding of sourcing, and PAG, belies your experience here. Why bother? -Roxy the dog™ woof 18:06, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You appear to be evading the question...Is homeopathy considered a "fringe belief" in India? Yes or no? Cla68 (talk) 21:29, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You appear to be missing the point - the popular acceptance of something has no bearing on the reality of its value. Properly designed and analyzed experiments (science) establishes value/validity. The scientific method is not different in India, nor is the pool of data, so science says it's a fringe belief in India the same as anywhere else. You are offering an argumentum ad populum, a logical fallacy, meaning that your argument does nothing to establish your conclusion. EditorFormerlyKnownAsPuddin' (talk) 21:51, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

See the comment here, and the source it cites which states that as of 2014 "Only 5 to 7 percent usage of ‘other’ including AYUSH (Ayurveda, Yoga or Naturopathy Unani, Siddha and homoeopathy) was reported both in rural and urban area." But in any case, the criterion for whether the topic is regarded as fringe here is how the medical and scientific consensus regards it. Brunton (talk) 22:01, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Dullman has also recently tried the "everyone in India can't be wrong" argument. Funny thing is, the life expectancy in India is currently 66 years, while that in the U.S. is 79 years. This article points out that there has recently been an increase of life expectancy in India of 5 years and that it is due primarily to the introduction of modern public health interventions. So one has to wonder, is it the reliance on things such as homeopathy that is responsible for the still low overall expectancy in India? It seems pretty clear that supplanting such nonsense with real medicine has a demonstrable and profound beneficial effect. EditorFormerlyKnownAsPuddin' (talk) 22:06, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I agree the real question is not what the general public of India believes but whatever or not their views should given priority over established science. --174.91.186.82 (talk)

EditorFormerlyKnownAsPuddin' is right: "the popular acceptance of something has no bearing on the reality of its value." At Wikipedia, when dealing with scientifically falsifiable matters, the term "fringe" is unrelated to any degree of statistical minority or majority acceptance or rejection in the general populace. It refers exclusively to acceptance or rejection by the mainstream scientific community. If a clear majority of the scientific community reject an idea, then believers are considered on the "fringe", even if a large majority of the general populace are also believers. Scientists hold the trump card when it comes to verifiable facts. This also applies to climate change, where a clear majority of American Republicans deny the overwhelming scientific consensus supporting anthropogenic climate change/global warming. That majority are ALL "fringe", just as ALL believers in homeopathy are "fringe", even if they are a majority in India (which may be the case there). -- BullRangifer (talk) 16:01, 22 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Bull, that isn't true. If the majority of the world disagrees with a few scientists, and the sources reflect that, then that view carries here in WP. We crowdsource. This isn't "SciencePedia". Cla68 (talk) 18:21, 22 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Right, the argumentum ad populum. Fifty million smokers can't be wrong! That said, I don't know where you got your facts; recent data suggest that the vast majority of Indians rely on conventional medicine rather than homeopathy (see this from Edzard Ernst, for instance). Do you have some sources saying otherwise that you'd like to discuss? MastCell ^Talk 18:54, 22 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Cla68: this is unequivocally, completely, and crucially wrong. We specifically do not crowdsource, we represent what the experts have published in reliable sources. Having 51% of the population's support is not a factor in determining what exists in the scientific mainstream. To quote our NPOV policy, "The relative prominence of each viewpoint among Wikipedia editors or the general public is not relevant and should not be considered." VQuakr (talk) 20:26, 22 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

While the popularity and prevalence of a belief may be of general interest, homeopathy makes specific claims of intervention "A" causing outcome "B". Such claims can not be addressed by popular belief, but are most appropriately assessed through the scientific method. The popularity of homeopathy is already touched on in the article here and here. The popularity of homeopathy has no bearing on the rest of the article, which is dedicated to presenting evidence which establishes the reality of the situation - i.e. it is possible for a lot of people to believe in patently absurd nonsense. EditorFormerlyKnownAsPuddin' (talk) 20:37, 22 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia doesn't take a side right? Either popular or scientific. It's against our policy. What it does is influence the weight that the article gives it. If 2 billion people in the world believe in Christian creationism but 10,000 scientists believe in Darwinism (and I'm skewing the numbers a little, I know), then our articles should reflect that weight. If you don't like it that the majority of the world haven't accepted everything that scientists necessarily accept, then you need to start your own wiki- "ScienceWiki". This is Wikipedia, and it goes by the wisdom of the crowd. Cla68 (talk) 20:44, 22 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

That is simply not correct. Check VQuakr's post above for applicable WP rules. Our article mentions popular opinion and then commits itself to presenting evidence. BTW, think about what you are suggesting - there is no compelling evidence that homeopathy works (after 200 years), therefore we should report popular opinion. The structure of our article does not need to change; you may, however, want to look at your beliefs if an appeal to popularity is the best you can do, as is being admitted by your proposal here. EditorFormerlyKnownAsPuddin' (talk) 21:09, 22 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You are completely misunderstanding the NPOV policy. This is not a democracy. Dbrodbeck (talk) 21:10, 22 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Ever heard the expression, "Judge people by their actions, not their words"? That applies here. A few of you here are saying the crowdsourcing and wisdom of the masses doesn't apply to articles like this, but your actions completely bely that. You all watch this article like hawks and quickly revert any changes that don't meet your approval. If two or more people object to the present content, you quickly pile in and object. Obviously, you know that Wikipedia's content is decided by the masses. That's how Wikipedia was originally designed, and how it still operates. If a local consensus develops to change it, it gets changed, because having the numbers means you can out revert-war those who are fewer in number. Same thing with the sourcing. If 500 million people like homeopathy and 5,000 don't (even if they're scientists), the only way this article expresses the view of the 5,000 is if more editors here support those 5,000 than those against. Cla68 (talk) 21:27, 22 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I already quoted what NPOV actually has to say about popular opinion, which you ignored. You are (repeatedly) assigning a position to WP's policy that it simply does not take. VQuakr (talk) 21:51, 22 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

A collection of editors making sure that the rules are followed is not the same thing as a collection of editors forcing their opinions or the opinions of any arbitrarily selected cross section of the population. That is why WP rules exist, to empower that very distinction and to prevent people from coming in here and employing every imaginable fallacious argument to forward their ideological agenda. Work within WP rules or please leave. EditorFormerlyKnownAsPuddin' (talk) 21:56, 22 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There have been three government reviews of homeopathy: Switzerland, the UK and Australia. All three concluded that it doesn't work. That's hardly a surprise: read the article and you'll find that homeopathy is based on the idea that like cures like, which is simply not the case. It's also predicated on the idea that by dilution and magic shaking, a substance becomes "potentised". If this were true it would have profound implications for science, but the only people who seem able to produce any evidence that it does, were already believers before they started. See pathological science. That's the reality the article reflects. Homeopathy believers hate that and keep trying to change it, but they need to change the real world first, then Wikipedia will follow. Admittedly the chances are low as the universe seems to really hate homeopathy. Guy (Help!) 00:24, 23 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• just want to note that the thing cited in the OP about "many labeled as 'natural, safe, and effective'" - those labels are why the FDA was cracking down; the FDA judged those labels as false. The OP seems to be among those who take such marketing at face value. Oy. Jytdog (talk) 20:51, 2 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I wanted to add this to the "Government Level Reviews" part: The chair, Paul Glasziou, of the NHMRC enquiry wrote in the British Medical Journal "I had begun the journey with an “I don’t know” attitude, curious about whether this unlikely treatment could ever work. Still, who would have believed that bacteria caused peptic ulcers, or that vaccines for cancers would become routine. So just maybe.…but I lost interest after looking at the 57 systematic reviews (on 68 conditions) which contained 176 individual studies and finding no discernible convincing effects beyond placebo." BMJ UR: http://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2016/02/16/paul-glasziou-still-no-evidence-for-homeopathy/ However, I keep seeing a lock on the article and can't put it there. It says something about confirmation but I seem to be confirmed. Can anybody help? User:9847a Anyway, is it ok to add the above and does somebody know what I can do? —Preceding undated comment added 04:03, 24 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

While I am heartened by the musings of the chair, I would be more inclined to include an official summary statement by the NHMRC as opposed to a personal reflection by the chair which merely points out what our article already references elsewhere, i.e. systematic reviews show that homeopathy doesn't work. But that's just one man's opinion. EditorFormerlyKnownAsPuddin' (talk) 17:03, 24 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I too was considering adding that content, but instead chose to create a section, which contains content more in keeping with what Puddin' says. -- BullRangifer (talk) 17:09, 24 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Looks nice. I think BR's new section makes for a strong addition. EditorFormerlyKnownAsPuddin' (talk) 17:48, 24 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

1. Please remove the word "dogmas" from the following statement in the introduction: "Homeopathy is not a plausible system of treatment, as its dogmas about how drugs, illness, the human body, liquids and solutions operate are contradicted by a wide range of discoveries across biology, psychology, physics and chemistry made in the two centuries since its invention."

There are no established "dogmas" within the homeopathic community. Using this word immediately indicates the strong bias of the writer. If you would like to include the "dogmas" of Homeopathy, please find a reliable source that lists them. I do not believe such a thing exists.

2. Please remove this sentence from the introduction: "The continued practice of homeopathy, despite a lack of evidence of efficacy,[6][7][21] has led to it being characterized within the scientific and medical communities as nonsense,[22] quackery,[4][23][24] and a sham.[25]"

This sentence reveals a strong preference for the opinions and biases of the scientific and medical communities. The vitriol of scientific and medical communities should not be placed as an authoritative condemnation of homeopathy, especially as an introduction to the term. These claims would be much better served in a separate tab about criticisms and controversies.

This entire introduction ignores the historical and religious underpinnings of homeopathic practices. An unbiased introduction should give equal attention to various disciplinary approaches to a topic, and not preference that of the scientific community.

Mbentsman (talk) 19:02, 2 March 2016 (UTC)mb 3/2/2016[reply]

A dogma is a principle, belief or statement of opinion, especially one considered to be absolutely true and indisputable, regardless of evidence or without evidence to support it. That is an accurate descriptor for how homeopaths view, for example, their philosophy of "like cures like." Per our guidelines, we are required to reflect the scientific consensus, which indeed is thoroughly against homeopathy. Following your proposal to give equal validity to the homeopaths would actually violate our NPOV policy, as described at WP:GEVAL. VQuakr (talk) 20:08, 2 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

We have covered point #2 above. As for your first concern, you'll want to read up on the definition of what a "dogma" is. There is no negative connotation, it is simply an appropriate word to describe the central defining beliefs of any concept. Biochemists speak of the "central dogma" of molecular biology all the time - it is not a bad thing to have a dogma. EditorFormerlyKnownAsPuddin' (talk) 00:06, 3 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

After due consideration: No. Guy (Help!) 00:27, 3 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia should show a "strong preference" for the expertise of scientific and medical communities -- that's part of the NPOV policy. Manul ~ talk 04:56, 4 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Wikipedia disregards the most minority of the minority viewpoints (such as flat Earth), as any coverage gives it undue weight. If a concept is nearly unanimously accepted (the minority who affirm that homeopathy is effective is ~0%), it is fact. Esquivalience ^t 19:27, 9 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

QUOTE: Homeopathy is not a plausible system of treatment, as its dogmas about how drugs, illness, the human body, liquids and solutions operate are contradicted by a wide range of discoveries across biology, psychology, physics and chemistry made in the two centuries since its invention. END OF QUOTE

May be there are explanations for how Homoeopathy works.

See these:

1. The machinery of Homoeopathy

2. Software codes of Reality, Life and Languages! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.217.230.177 (talk) 14:24, 21 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Please read WP:RS and WP:MEDRS. Dbrodbeck (talk) 14:28, 21 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

A couple of problems: first, homeopathy has never been shown to work, so discussing a mechanism of how it could work is quite pointless. Second, your sources stand as metaphors at best and gibberish at worst, not evidence of anything. Inventing some new "code" for interpreting everything doesn't stand as evidence that the "code" is anything more than meaningless words slammed together. In that regard, this nonsense is very much on par with homeopathy - but no more worthy of acknowledgement. EditorFormerlyKnownAsPuddin' (talk) 02:35, 22 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It is curious that the above links that I had posted are still there. It was expected that it would be removed point blank.

However, just to post a rejoinder, let me QUOTE: Homeopathy is not a plausible system of treatment, as its dogmas about how drugs, illness, the human body, liquids and solutions operate are contradicted by a wide range of discoveries across biology, psychology, physics and chemistry made in the two centuries since its invention END OF QUOTE.

Maybe it is easily noted that even though biology, psychology, physics & chemistry has been mentioned, a totally new field of material or non-material reality that has come into the notice of human knowledge in the past few decades has not been mentioned. And that is the world of Software. It might be surprising, but a truth to say that most doctors and other medical professionals do not have any idea as to what this world is, or how it works. And as to modern science, it might be quite interesting to know where the world of software is placed by them. In Physics, Chemistry, Mathematics, or Biology?

Does modern science have as yet any idea as to how the trillions upon trillions of body cells and neural and glial cells work in unison? Is it possible to explain the working of this astronomically gigantic and complicated mechanism without accepting that there is some kind of a software working in the background.

How can medical professionals decry or deny a contention, when a majority of them do not have any idea of what they are denying?

What about Wikipedia removing the totally unacceptable lines: QUOTE: Homeopathy is a pseudoscience END OF QUOTE?

Or should everything be'science' to be true?

It is true that Wikipedia does not allow the contentions that are not peer approved. But then, why not take an impartial attitude and simply mention the contentions of Homoeopathy, instead of taking sides and proclaiming derogatory contentions.