I added a link to my blog, Democrats Against the DLC. I'd be fine if somebody wanted to get rid of all those blog links, but as long as everyone else is doing it...

~~Hi, I got rid of it because it was essentially nothing more than an advertisement.Bobbyd100 02:45, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I tried to distill the discussion down to topics that seemed to be ongoing. I hope that's ok. Ryan Utt

Concerning the top of the article: ...a goal which had eluded the Democrats since the 1976 election of Jimmy Carter.

am i missing something or is this saying the dems haven't taken (or retaken) the white house since carter? if so, that's pretty incorrect. Sorry if this has already been discussed. gbinal

In 1984 when the DLC was founded, the Democrats has lost the election to Ronald Reagan. Obviosly Clinton was elected President later on. That particular claim of the sentance is correct, but the sentance could be improved: losing to an incumbent president while dominating the House and the Senate doesn't indicate to a crisis within the Democratic Party. --Ryan Utt 07:01, 4 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Behind The DLC Takeover

I think it is a misnomer to refer to their policies as "centrist" or "moderate." The policies of the liberal wing of the Democratic Party (ala Teddy Kennedy) are centrist by any global measure. The DLC is better described as center-right.

Within the framework of American politics, their policies are center-left, centrist, or moderate. I'm sure even Ted Kennedy would not refer to himself as a "centrist". -- Mattworld 20:50, August 1, 2005 (UTC)

I agree that the characterization of the DLC as "centrist" is POV. Certainly the DLC describes itself as "centrist" but people across the spectrum will disagree, and, in fact, a glance at the history shows that many different adjectives have been employed in this articles first paragraph to describe the DLC's position. This issue is complicated by the fact that "centrist" doesn't have any solid definition, and varies across time and across the globe. I think we can objectively agree that the DLC advocates a right-ward shift of the Democratic Party. Can we agree to this? Ryan Utt

I think "shift from the left" keeps the DLC squarely where they feel most comfortable. I wouldn't use "right" to describe them so I changed "right-ward shift" to "shift from the left". I also changed "modeerate" to "more modeerate" ,again because "moderate has an absolute connotation that doesn't really describe anything. Tbeatty 00:53, 4 December 2005 (UTC) tbeatty[reply]

Compared with the Marxist Socialists who run the "anti-war" faction of the Democratic Party, the DLC is centrist. The DLC is a liberal organization on many issues, but Centrists are characterized by their refusal to walk any sort of ideological litmus tests. To call the positions taken by Moveon.org or International ANSWER centrist is absurd. --146.145.70.200 18:51, 14 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Shut up, you inbred, ignorant right-wing shill.--75.25.28.65 01:05, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As with the vast majority of things on the wiki, this has a very noticeable leftist ideological viewpoint. There is no discussion of the successes of the DLC, the broad-based support of its positions amongst the voting public, and through the use of buzzwords, it tries to tar the DLC as a bunch of turncoat apostates who might as well be conservatives. For instance, why is noteworthy to note that they criticize Michael Moore? It is only noteworthy if you start from the assumption that he isn't a crazed crackpot. Bascially, this entire article is written in the tone that there is something a good liberal democrat is supposed to be and these guys aren't it.

The DLC has never used the words "loony left" to describe Moore and Dean. This article is full of criticism with nothing good to say about the DLC from someone who knows a little more about what they stand for. I intend to change this once I gather my thoughts.

Hmmmm... the DLC never used the words "loony left" to describe Michael Moore? I'm going to have to disagree, because when I go to dlc.org and search for "loony left" I get an article by Marshall Wittman entitled (in Wittman's typical Garanimal posturing) "Moose on the Loose". Inside, Wittman makes the statement:

"Contrary to the conspiracy theories of Michael Moore and the loony left, Bush did not invent our enemies."

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=252914&kaid=127&subid=173

So go ahead and share your expertise on the DLC and give a positive perspective. I'm certainly not in a position to do that. But make sure your facts are right.

Wittman using the phrase is not the same thing as the DLC as an organization doing so. But all the same, thanks for pointing it out. BTW, you may have noticed the article has changed and now contains a more positive depiction of the DLC as well as criticism of it.

Wittman didn't just use the phrase "loony left" while speaking on his own, he said so in an article written in BluePrint, the DLC's primary organ. So what Wittman writes in BluePrint is representative of the DLCs stance.

All these edits aren't so much giving a positive perspective of the DLC as white-washing the negative perspective. This claim that the DLC "opposed" Bush's tax-cuts is particularly galling considering the explicitly cautioned politicians from opposing those tax-cuts lest they appear far-left.

Okay, I was wrong about Marshall Wittman. Kudos to the one who pointed that out. But as for the tax cuts, the DLC has consistently opposed Bush's tax cuts FOR THE WEALTHY, but at the same time has warned Democrats against opposing MIDDLE CLASS tax cuts. Agree or disagree with the DLC's view as you see fit, but anyone who doubts this should read these:

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=131&subid=192&contentid=3023

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=131&subid=192&contentid=3060

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=131&subid=192&contentid=3107

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=131&subid=192&contentid=3191

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=251787&kaid=125&subid=162

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=251924&kaid=127&subid=900056

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=252295&kaid=127&subid=900056

-I'm here with little knowledge and more interested in querying a single sentence. I do want to add this, to this conversation. Please, let us all do keep our editing talk civil and patient, otherwise what wikipedia can be will not be. All of us would agree that wikipedia has great potential. In the best pursuit of that, long-term, I hope that no one will "shout" as above. Would the following not be NPOV and true: 'Some see the DLC's as advocating traditionally conservative points.' or such. As far as the inclusion of certain points such as conservative criticism of Moore or Dean, even if they were added with an agenda, a true NPOV statement should be welcome at wikipedia and only sought to work into the article more flowingly and clearly. Facts should never be excluded for any political reasons, even if they were added for political reasons. Let's continue talking and contributing. - gbinal

The phrase "Some see the DLC's as advocating traditionally conservative points" seems to already be made in the third paragraph of "Criticism". However, if you have specific policies in mind, please feel free to contribute them.

The sentence about the DLC advocating "abandoning progressive principles" is not accurate...The DLC website references progressive ideas multiple times, and uses the word "progressive"....A more accurate characterization might be that the DLC calls for a more centrist party or advocates progressive centrism...

Yes, and look at how well Kerry did. Personally I attribute the utter mess of a campaign that was 2004 to the DLC and their movement towards a more centrist democratic party. 69.231.202.228 00:19, 14 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

During the 2004 Primary campaign the DLC attacked Presidential candidate Howard Dean as an out-of-touch liberal, because of Dean's position of capturing and killing Osama Bin Laden instead of illegally invading Iraq, The DLC dismissed other critics of the Ignore Bin Laden, Invade Iraq policy such as filmmaker Michael Moore as "Anti-American" and members of the "loony left" [7]. This seems to be pretty blatant in it's bias. I'm going to edit it to be more NPOV.Jaguar84 21:24, 16 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The claim is made that the DLC says that Democrats "should shift away from traditionally populist positions".

No evidence whatsoever is presented to support this declarative statement. That is because there is no evidence to support this claim. In fact, the opposite is true. In an article entitled "[ http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=114&subid=236&contentid=254075 How to Grow the Middle Class]", the first pillar of the DLLC's "opportunity agenda" is:

Every American should have the opportunity and responsibility to go to college and earn a degree, or to get the lifelong training they need.

Pretty musch puts the lie to the idea that the DLC argues against populist policies.

--Gatordem 22:29, 7 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

True, that sounds like a pretty populist position, but I've heard many a DLC acolyte complain about the "populist" leanings of various Democratic candidates. The DLC leadership even criticized Al Gore--one of their own--on the grounds that his 2000 platform was "too populist" and not "New Democrat" enough. The DLC may claim to support equal opportunity to attend college, but they oppose most plans to publicly finance such college educations for needy students, such as the one John Edwards started in eastern North Carolina and is proposing on the national level. Typically, the DLC uses the word "populist" to describe a leftist or "old fashioned liberal" position on any economic issue. I think it's pretty safe to say what the DLC is all about is making the Democratic Party more palatable for more affluent people, which is in stark contrast to a truly populist agenda. --24.107.35.146 05:45, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]