Langbahn Team – Weltmeisterschaft

Talk:USS Constitution: Difference between revisions

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Qwirkle (talk | contribs)
Ribs and riders: new section
Jack?: new section
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A rider was much like a frame in appearance, except put on the diagonal. Like frames, riders were made up of pieces, also called futtocks, “rider futtocks” in full. [[User:Qwirkle|Qwirkle]] ([[User talk:Qwirkle|talk]]) 16:09, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
A rider was much like a frame in appearance, except put on the diagonal. Like frames, riders were made up of pieces, also called futtocks, “rider futtocks” in full. [[User:Qwirkle|Qwirkle]] ([[User talk:Qwirkle|talk]]) 16:09, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

== Jack? ==

What jack does ''Constitution'' fly? I've gotten conflicting information saying she does and doesn't fly the [[First Navy Jack]] even after the USN's switchover back to the Union Jack. – <span style="font-family: Georgia;">'''''[[User:Illegitimate Barrister|Illegitimate Barrister]]'''''</span> ([[User_talk:Illegitimate_Barrister|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Illegitimate Barrister|contribs]]), 16:34, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

Revision as of 16:34, 4 June 2019

Featured articleUSS Constitution is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
Main Page trophyThis article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on February 20, 2015.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
February 4, 2008WikiProject peer reviewReviewed
September 27, 2008Good article nomineeListed
October 22, 2008WikiProject A-class reviewApproved
November 8, 2008Featured article candidatePromoted
December 14, 2009WikiProject peer reviewReviewed
Current status: Featured article


Retaining featured article status

It's been about 9 years since I brought this article to featured status. Over time the article deteriorates as FA requirements are strengthened and typically well-meaning editors add more cruft to the contents; like ramming pics into the article until it looks like photo gallery, rather than an article. I have made several attempts in the past few years to clean up the article but most often run into problems as my edits are reverted by those who cannot take into consideration the overall picture of retaining FA status and that my edits are part of an long-term overhaul; not just a single edit. Here are some goals the article needs:

  • Update and refresh where possible sources and citations. I've found better and more reliable ones over the years. But the citation style must remain consistent; not a mix of whatever gets thrown in. Some of the content in the article no longer have citations in place only because sloppy editing has removed them.
  • Sources targeted for removal and replacement are: Abbott - MacClay&Smith to be replaced by Toll and or Martin. There are also several online references and sources that are no longer available and should be replaced. Brad (talk) 10:46, 16 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Article size is an issue at 11k+ words. Part of the solution is to remove less important information that appears as 'name-dropping'. I lessened a list of people attending the 200 anniversary sail but was reverted claiming 'not an improvement'. This is counterproductive. In addition, there is a growing amount of coatracking going on. This is an article about Constitution and not Constellation for example. The article seems to be turning into a 'restoration blog' Certainly it's an important subject especially when the restorations have preserved the ship from ruin. Not sure just yet what can be done about that. We do not need mentions of every little thing that happens to the ship in the present day. I'll quit here although I've more to say on the matter. Brad (talk) 12:07, 15 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Brad101: Thanks for the post. I was the one who reverted that list, as I couldn't see how it improved things. It helps to know what your goal was, and I certainly agree that there are many extraneous and trivial details included in the article that could be cut. I mentioned this is my most recent edit, but was hesitant to simply start slicing details such as "General So-n-so named his dog after the ship." In light of this, the entire passage concerning all the celebrities who sailed that day could be excised—including Walter Cronkite. I'll see if I can do some pruning. —Dilidor (talk) 12:39, 15 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I meant to thank you for the professional copyedits you made to the article. They did more good than bad, so I didn't nitpick on the bads :) I thought I should make a post about my intentions. The problem with cutting information typically means that citations get messed around. For example, right now the information about serving as a 'brig' during WWII are not backed up by the current citation ie: the DANFS article does not mention that. Now I have to track down a reference and clean up the Constellation fanboy cruft. Slow and steady is how I prefer to go. Brad (talk) 14:47, 15 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

And today there are several editors throwing more feces into the article. Fast as I can remove it. Brad (talk) 19:13, 16 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

update

I've trimmed about 1000 words from the article and likely will find more during a second closer look. If not, the article is more in line with size guidelines now. Brad (talk) 18:40, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

History Detectives

A very interesting segment that covers some unanswered questions of the Andrew Jackson figurehead incident is on youtube. Brad (talk) 20:35, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It vs. She

I believe that it is okay to refer to a ship as "it" once the ship is no longer in commission. For example, it is okay to call Constitution it, starting from the present day and other periods when it was not actively sailing. I understand the tradition of referring to ships as "she" is very old and (very cherished still), but there are still sources saying that as early as 1753, sailors would refer to ships as "it" instead of "she" It is okay to refer to a ship in the neuter instead of the feminine.

So, to my friends on Wikipedia, please either leave me alone, or assist or support me as I make these reasonable, small edits. Please not attempt to block me, or I may just report you.

Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.33.2.49 (talk) 18:53, 9 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

As per WP:SHE4SHIPS, a Wi[k]ipedia guideline, once a pronoun is used to refer to the ship, the article should remain "internally consistent". "She" is used 177 times to refer to the ship and "her" is used 148 times. "It" is used 0 times. Once your edits were reverted, you need to stop re-adding them and discuss the issue on talk page. While you have started this discussion, you are also continuing to make the same edits, now for the third time, despite the clear, multiple warnings posted to your IP user talk page. Your edits are disruptive and if you continue, you are the one who will be reported and very likely blocked from editing. Please find another article to make your "small helpful edits to", but just make sure your aren't violating project guidelines (or edit warring). Thank you - wolf 19:10, 9 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Added note - I see you had to be reverted three more times by two more editors. You are now edit-warring as well as disrupting that article. I added a welcome notice to your IP user talk page, please read it. You need to have some understanding of the policies here. Also; Constitution is still in commission, and as for "I believe that it is okay to refer to a ship as "it" once the ship is no longer in commission.", that has no bearing here (along with the fact that it sounds like a bunch of nonsense). Stop disrupting the page. Thank you - wolf 19:37, 9 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Alright, Wolfchild (cool name, btw).
My apologies. Still, I think other people would agree with me (except for my "vandalous" efforts.)
I will stop editing this page without warning. But I am not dropping this argument any time soon.
Also, with all due respect, I have a decent understanding of the rules here, but that doesn't mean I may forget some small policies here and there. I should remember to be more considerate.
To finish, thank you for reminding me to include a link to this issue: http://www.traveller.com.au/everyone-asks-why-are-ships-called-she-gyr2t0, Please see LLOYD'S LIST. Trust me, it is NOT nonsense.
Thanks again, and let's create no more trouble for each other.
Your friend in editing (if you'll consider me your friend that is),
Wiscipidier — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.33.2.49 (talk) 17:49, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Tangier

Hartley (2007), p. 346 (see Tangier), includes the section:

By the beginning of the nineteenth century, autonomous corsairs out of Tangier were attacking American shipping and holding the sailors of many nations for ransom. In response, US commodore Preble sailed into Tangier harbor in 1803 and pulled off a daring rescue of American prisoners.

Was that source mistaken and this was only a squadron of gunboats enforcing a ship exchange, as this article currently suggests? or are both accounts just focusing on different parts of the same event? It'd be nice to hear about the "daring rescue" of enslaved Americans here, if there was more to it than "I'll give you your floating toys back if you give us our floating toys back".—Mr Spear (talk) 00:58, 20 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Per the Nautilus page, the squadron's gunboat diplomacy at Tangier also led to the reaffirmation/renewal of the Moroccan–American Treaty of Friendship.—Mr Spear (talk) 01:24, 20 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Ribs and riders

During her era, and for wooden ships since, the transverse members weren’t called ribs. They are frames, almost always made up of multiple pieces called futtocks. So, not only are the riders not “ribs”, a ship like Constitution does not have any ribs. That was then a term reserved for boats and canoes, whose ribs are almost always single pieces. In fact, many wooden boats used both frames and ribs, with the strakes fitted to the frames and floors, and then the lighter ribs fitted to the strakes.

A rider was much like a frame in appearance, except put on the diagonal. Like frames, riders were made up of pieces, also called futtocks, “rider futtocks” in full. Qwirkle (talk) 16:09, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Jack?

What jack does Constitution fly? I've gotten conflicting information saying she does and doesn't fly the First Navy Jack even after the USN's switchover back to the Union Jack. – Illegitimate Barrister (talk • contribs), 16:34, 4 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]