Talk:Bubonic plague: Difference between revisions
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:Thanks for bringing this up. It would be very helpful if you could find some references that describe the plague outside of Europe and post them here. Alternatively, you could be [[WP:BOLD]] and edit the section yourself. If you dont have the time, feel free to post material here and we can discuss. Thanks![[User:Ajpolino|Ajpolino]] ([[User talk:Ajpolino|talk]]) 03:39, 6 September 2016 (UTC) |
:Thanks for bringing this up. It would be very helpful if you could find some references that describe the plague outside of Europe and post them here. Alternatively, you could be [[WP:BOLD]] and edit the section yourself. If you dont have the time, feel free to post material here and we can discuss. Thanks![[User:Ajpolino|Ajpolino]] ([[User talk:Ajpolino|talk]]) 03:39, 6 September 2016 (UTC) |
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I think that "Death if it occurs is typically within ten days" should become "Death, if it occurs, is typically within ten days". |
I think that "Death if it occurs is typically within ten days" should become "Death, if it occurs, is typically within ten days". |
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([[User:Hitbyabus6|Hitbyabus6]] ([[User talk:Hitbyabus6|talk]]) 21:44, 12 January 2017 (UTC)) |
([[User:Hitbyabus6|Hitbyabus6]] ([[User talk:Hitbyabus6|talk]]) 21:44, 12 January 2017 (UTC)) |
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British India
British india is a place in between india and britain. The place was formed by a british and indian couple mated. And when they mated they formed a society which more british people and indian people came and mated and created a bigger society. Also when british india was formed they came up with a word called sex and fuck instead of mate. Later they came up with the entertainment called porn (which is still here today, by searching porn on a search engine.
I disagree, South Asia was rarely one unified state except for a few blimps which were the exception. The term India was in fact coined by the British, and the region was called British India and has nothing to do with Pakistanis but is a universal fact. Prior to the arrival of the British, the region was ruled by many others who never used the term india to describe the entire peninsula but rather just the small portion of the indus river near the province of Sindh. Hope that helps settle things! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.228.14.213 (talk) 19:35, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Cats in Medieval Europe
"The people of Europe believed cats were evil and so domestic house cats were killed. Without these cats, the rat population was dramatically increased, there were more infectious fleas, and disease transmission was more likely."
I would like to see far more evidence to back this claim up. This sounds a bit ridiculous and like an over generalization. I don't see a source to this claim at all. Also, there is a contradiction in this sentence. If cats were believed to be evil by Europeans, as it is claimed in the above sentence, then they would not have been domesticated.
Furthermore, the only claims I can find backing this evidence are various dubious internet sites that have no sources or citations to back their evidence, and if they do, they are usually links to other dubious internet sites. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.108.248.241 (talk) 20:45, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
It's not a contradiction, some people had domesticated cats before all of these crazy beliefs about them being evil were around. Their owners could have been convinced, or wanted to make sure they weren't rumored evil as well by keeping them, so they killed them. It's not a contradiction at all. Also, I can see this as being possibly true since cats have always been great mousers and great at catching rats as well. It wouldn't be hard for the rat population to go up if their natural predator was out of the way, and also seeing how fast rats reproduce, it would be a greater problem. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.118.49.29 (talk) 21:26, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
Later Outbreak section needs small changes
The later outbreak section implies that the island of Oahu is located on the island of Hawaii (!). Further, it is written in a USA-centric manner, referring to the USA as "here" and saying that the plague was "brought" rather than transferred. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.194.71.249 (talk) 16:20, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
Nothing on the origin of the plague
I can't see anything about debates over where the plague originated: Manchuria, Yunnan, Central Africa, etc.? It would seem to be a worthwhile addition to the history. 96.231.17.131 (talk) 16:51, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
Eradication
Some explanation of why it hasn't been eradicated and why it hasn't caused pandemics recently would be interesting. -- Beland (talk) 13:52, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
- There's a theory that the reason the three pandemics happened was because of climate change. The Medieval plague period in particular was characterized by a climactic shift towards cooler, wetter climate, which caused famine (weakening the immune systems of victims) and brought hosts of the disease closer to human populations. I could make an edit but I don't know whether this theory would fit on this page or on the Black Death page better. -- Home Griffin (talk) 22:29, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
Pictures - missing and irrelevant?
The pictures of the victim injuries and the flea are very relevant. The picture of the "mass grave in Martigues" is missing. The picture of the butcher shop in Sydney was taken at the time of the 1900 outbreak, apparently, but there's no mention at all about how the content of the picture is relevant to the article... 157.130.11.206 (talk) 13:15, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
2014 case of an American catching the plague from his cat
Two sources: www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/jan/31/i-caught-plague-from-my-cat?CMP=twt_gu http://news.ninemsn.com.au/health/2014/02/03/13/08/paul-gaylord-caught-bubonic-plague-from-cat
If anyone wants to add to the article in latest incidents. I'm too busy having peasants tend to my crops and slaves drop grapes in my mouth. 106.68.120.79 (talk) 11:03, 3 February 2014 (UTC) Sutter Cane
Spread from coughing
Apparently skeletons found in London support a theory of transmission from coughing, not by fleas.[1]. Something to consider. --ColonelHenry (talk) 01:09, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
According to scientists working at Public Health England in Porton Down, the Black Death wasn't caused by bubonic plague at all, but rather by pneumonic plague. Link to article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.52.207.103 (talk) 04:00, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 22 July 2014
the paragraph headed Cause should be headed Vector.
this paragraph describes how the bubonic plague is carried and infects a victim. which is a description of a vector not a cause. the causes might include poor sanitation, lack of knowledge about antibiotics etc....
Peepo com (talk) 07:41, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
Not done for now: The paragraph includes a statement of what the plague is, and what it can progress to, i.e. it covers more than just the Vectors, of how it is carried and transmitted. I agree that Cause is inadequate, as more of the paragraph covers transmission. Can you suggest an alternative section title, covering all these aspects? - Arjayay (talk) 12:57, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 22 July 2014
There was a case of Bubonic plague discovered in Yumen, China. City has been sealed off.
Source: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/22/chinese-city-yumen-sealed-bubonic-plague-death 90.191.166.186 (talk) 16:40, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
- Not done for now: This is an interesting piece of news, but I don't think it's important enough in the history of bubonic plague to be worth including in the article yet. If this grows into an epidemic in China or something on that scale, then maybe we should include it. —Mr. Granger (talk · contribs) 00:27, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
Citation for pneumonic plague communicability.
"The plague is also known to spread to the lungs and become the disease known as the pneumonic plague. This form of the disease is highly communicable as the bacteria can be transmitted in droplets emitted when coughing or sneezing.[citation needed]"
Here's a citation: http://www.who.int/topics/plague/en/ If the bacteria reach the lungs, the patient develops pneumonia (pneumonic plague), which is then transmissible from person to person through infected droplets spread by coughing. Initial symptoms of bubonic plague appear 7–10 days after infection.
I don't have semi-edit privileges so I'd appreciate it if someone added it for me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Noonespeciall (talk • contribs) 14:46, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
Medieval illustration
The description on Commons for the file on the right reads "Miniature out of the Toggenburg Bible (Switzerland) of 1411. The disease is widely believed to be the plague. The location of bumps or blisters, however, is more consistent with smallpox (as the bubonic plague normally causes them only in the groin and in the armpits). is generally interpreted as a depiction of the plague - "the Black Death". As the interpretation is that it's probably not the bubonic plague I've removed it from this article, and replaced it with File:Burying Plague Victims of Tournai.jpg. Nev1 (talk) 12:22, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
hello how are you any one — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.168.248.224 (talk) 22:00, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
lol
tghtedyeryeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee hi people u should not belive what wikipedia says because people edit it so yh — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ilovewekipedia (talk • contribs) 17:32, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- Actually silly people like you make silly remarks that get erased very quickly. Thousands of editors watch out for vandalism and stupid remarks. Rjensen (talk) 17:34, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
Multiple plague reintroductions from Asia from boom and bust Asian rodent populations, such as the gerbil, carried by traders and pack animals
From PNAS:
Abstract The Black Death, originating in Asia, arrived in the Mediterranean harbors of Europe in 1347 CE, via the land and sea trade routes of the ancient Silk Road system. This epidemic marked the start of the second plague pandemic, which lasted in Europe until the early 19th century. This pandemic is generally understood as the consequence of a singular introduction of Yersinia pestis, after which the disease established itself in European rodents over four centuries. To locate these putative plague reservoirs, we studied the climate fluctuations that preceded regional plague epidemics, based on a dataset of 7,711 georeferenced historical plague outbreaks and 15 annually resolved tree-ring records from Europe and Asia. We provide evidence for repeated climate-driven reintroductions of the bacterium into European harbors from reservoirs in Asia, with a delay of 15 ± 1 y. Our analysis finds no support for the existence of permanent plague reservoirs in medieval Europe. [2]
From Gerbils likely pushed plague to Europe in Middle Ages Geoff Brumfiel · NPR:
"I like rats," says Nils Christian Stenseth, an evolutionary ecologist at the University of Oslo. "But there is a myth around rats that they are evil."
He says the rat story doesn't add up: If rats carried plague to Europe, and Europe is still full of rats today, then plague should also be found in European cities. But it isn't.
Stenseth suspects that the plague came to Europe multiple times from Asia, where it still exists today. The rodents that carry plague in Asia include the cutest of infectious hosts: the gerbil.
"What we are suggesting is that it was gerbils in Central Asia and the bacterium in gerbils that eventually came to Europe," Stenseth says. The scientists used climate records to check their theory, and they found a tentative link. When the climate in Asia was good, gerbils are thought to have thrived; but when it went bad, the population crashed. And about 15 years after each boom and bust, a plague outbreak erupted in Europe. The theory is that fleas carrying plague jumped from dead gerbils to pack animals and human traders, who then brought it to European cities. The research team's results appear in the current issue of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.[3]
97.85.173.38 (talk) 10:59, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 5 June 2015
Correct spelling from "urban micobiome" to "urban microbiome". 98.119.70.136 (talk) 07:41, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
Done Thanks for pointing that out - Arjayay (talk) 09:23, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
Rats versus small animals
While rats may have been the most important cause historically the WHO states "usually found in small animals and their fleas. It is transmitted between animals and humans by the bite of infected fleas, direct contact, inhalation and rarely, ingestion of infective materials."[4] The added source is nearly 10 years old than what was used before. Thus restored restored the animal bit. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 06:07, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
Death
This source "If left untreated, death often occurs within 15 hours of the appearance of symptoms.[1]" is for septicemic plague not bubonic plague. Also it is Juvenile Nonfiction. I will see if I can find something better. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 06:11, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 30 October 2015
This is pretty straightforward & simple:
"In the bubonic form of plague, the bacteria enter through the skin through a flea bite and travels via the lymphatics..." Here "lymphatics" should be changed to "lymphatic system"; the former is only appropriate when already discussing the lymphatic system, the present form will confuse readers. It confused me, at least.
"Diagnosis is by finding the bacterium in the blood" Here please change "bacterium" to the plural form "bacteria"; the singular form disagrees with the modifier "the" earlier in the sentence.
"in 2013 there was about 750 documented cases" Here "was" should be changed to the plural form "were" in order to modify the plural "cases" later in the sentence.
This should make the article much easier to read, which will be a great relief, much thanks. TFitts91 (talk) 06:29, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
Glaring Omission
Somewhere in the history/treatment sections there should be an account of who/when/where first discovered the link between the fleas, the rats and the disease, and the subsequent therapeutic response. Orthotox (talk) 22:32, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- Do you want to research and write that? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 08:50, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
- The history section of this article is already pretty hefty. Perhaps for the history of transmission, a separate article on transmission of Y. pestis might be more appropriate? Thoughts? I'd be happy to get a start on it if people think it may be useful.Ajpolino (talk) 18:21, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
- Do you want to research and write that? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 08:50, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 18 March 2016
Vlad the awesome (talk) 04:28, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
- Not done: as you have not requested a change.
If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 09:58, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
Airborne, not spread by rat fleas?
"Now, analysis of skeletal remains found by construction workers digging railway tunnels in central London has led scientists to a stunning new conclusion: The Black Death was not transmitted through flea bites at all, but was an airborne plague spread through the coughs, sneezes and breath of infected human victims." - http://www.history.com/news/medieval-black-death-was-airborne-scientists-say —Darxus (talk) 00:33, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
- So pneumonic plague rather than bubonic plague. I am sure it will take some time to shake out in the academic literature. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 01:44, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
Impact outside Europe
The article skips rather quickly over the impact outside of Europe. At least a third of China was wiped out, and a similar impact can be expected along the plague's westward expansion. Sub-Saharan Africa wasn't 'unaffected', merely ignored in the records. Some work is needed here, this was anything but a European only event. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.115.70.210 (talk) 08:39, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks for bringing this up. It would be very helpful if you could find some references that describe the plague outside of Europe and post them here. Alternatively, you could be WP:BOLD and edit the section yourself. If you dont have the time, feel free to post material here and we can discuss. Thanks!Ajpolino (talk) 03:39, 6 September 2016 (UTC)
Comma usage
I think that "Death if it occurs is typically within ten days" should become "Death, if it occurs, is typically within ten days". (Hitbyabus6 (talk) 21:44, 12 January 2017 (UTC))
- ^ Kevin Cunningham (1 January 2011). Bubonic Plague. ABDO. p. 20. ISBN 978-1-61758-920-1.