This user values third opinions and occasionally provides one.

You may request a Wikipedia:Third Opinion on disputes arising from minor difference of opinion on edits done to pages. Please append an entry to my Talk page so we can look at what is taking place. Third Opinions should be solicited as a form of Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment as part of the Wikipedia:Resolving_disputes process prior to requesting formal arbitration.

See my User:Damotclese User page for details about which pages I work with.

Updated 01/May/15

• Working with another editor to create the Grade Crossing Predictor page.

• Taking a look again at the Scientology crime syndicate's The Delphian School page which is basically a stub.

• Finished adding section Examples of Situation Awareness On The Job to Situation Awareness -- The page continues to be updated from time to time however a formal re-write to organize the page really is needed.

• Looked at Investment Industry Regulatory Organization of Canada which has a conflict on-going. One of the issues right now on that article is that it lacks WP:NPOV in that the phrase false allegations is not neutral. That was resolved however it is still subject to ideology-based edits so I continue to watch it.

• The Crystal Lake Recreation Area page had a Talk comment about how some section of it appearsed to be advertising. I need to fix that but also the page is generally containing obsolete information. UPDATE: The individual who suggested the page contains advertising never responded for specific suggestions on how to correct the text she found needed to be fixed.

• Need to create Curve Fire page. It is referenced in various places, notably the Windy Gap Trail page. UPDATE: The history of the Curve Fire may be getting supplanted on the Internet by the effects of the Colby Fire which also needs a page to be created.

• (Finished) Talk:M-87_Orkan Chemical munitions were not found deployed in Iraq, nor were any such munitions interdicted on their way to Iraq. Responded to RFC. UPDATE: The RFC was adopted however the page still needs to be watched in case the issue returns.

• Looking at the Boy Scouts of America entry, thinking that it is greatly inaccurate though noting that it is not very likely that the religious among us will welcome accurate updates to the entry. Update: The entry on the BSofA is being updated routinely anyway so I won't be doing any active editing.

• Bridge To Nowhere in the San Gabriel Mountains -- The trail along East Fork is covered by several million pounds of rock at about 1.56 miles in, North 34 degrees 15.440 by West 117 degrees 45.053 at 2271 feet altitude.

• Resolved and closed a dispute on the File 18 entry -- which was a silly dispute easily ruled.

• Seven Laws of Noah Wiki entry dispute has been abandoned.

• Watching MMR vaccine controversy again since a WP:SAP is making inappropriate edits despite assistance from a number of editors to revert broken links and other ideology-based proposed updates.

• Also I have to wonder what happened to User:BiologistBabe who was working on a number of pages. She works in the arena of infectious diseases so I hope nothing happened to her.

• Adding Scientology's Narconon frauds to my watchlist since there are a number of criminal indictments and civil lawsuits which will likely prompt further vandalism from Scientology people. In fact I suppose I should dive back in to that mess for a while since there will be a push to vandalize Scientology pages when David Miscavigie is dragged in to court in Comal County, Texas.

• Safety of electronic cigarettes added since the RFC responses was ignored.

Some of the warring editors in this have been sending our solicitation emails to people asking them to come and take their sides in the discussion.

Philippine Law Enforcement believes that the Philippine Syndicate is no longer presided over by a single leadership since the death of their founders.But has splintered into many groups. Many syndicate factions have the authority to order murders and oversee various other criminal activities. They have almost fifty thousand members that help carry out those orders and have the theoretical control of all Filipino street gangs. Members are expected to engage in tests of their loyalty to the Sindikato, which may include theft or murder. The penalty for refusing orders or failing to complete an assigned task is often death. According to the syndicate's constitution, members may also be punished or murdered if they commit any of four major infractions. These include becoming an informant, acts of homosexuality, acts of cowardice, and showing disrespect against fellow syndicate members. According to sindikato policy, a member of the syndicate may not

be murdered without prior approval by a vote of three members, yet the murder of non-members requires no formal approv

The syndicate groups are organized in various ways, but most are divided into secret, compartmentalized cells, each with a specific function (e.g., surveillance, intelligence, operations, money laundering). They are headed by either one individual or a small group. In many instances, the crime bosses also known as Ninong (Great Uncle or Godfather) are local toughies who went big time by staging daring heists and ruthlessly cutting down rivals, Mafia style. In other cases, as in some kidnap and bank-robbery gangs, they are former policemen or soldiers who use their arms and their connections with the law for criminal

ends.[1][2][3][4][5]

Sindikato Hierarchy

• Ninong-Boss/Godfather
  • Bosyo-Underboss^[6]
  • Mayor-Captain
  • Kosa-Member/Soldier
  • Bata-Associate

According to the Philippine National Police the major Sindikato groups / factions are the:

• Francisco Group -

Formerly with the Dragon or the Kuratong Baleleng Group, now led by Manuel Francisco, with 6,600 members armed with assorted type of high powered firearms and operates in the cities of Cagayan De Oro, Pagadian and Dipolog, and other neighboring cities and municipalities in the Mindanao (in southern Philippines), Cebu in Visayas (in Central Philippines), and Metro Manila in Luzon (in northern Philippines). The group is engaged in robbery/hold-up, carnapping, illegal drugs trafficking, and smuggling of rice and sugar.^[7][8]<

There needs to be a new page for Pacific Crest Trail Association which is being referenced on the Pacific Crest Trail page. That should be created along with the Angeles_volunteer_association and San Gabriel Mountains Trailbuilders and West Fork Conservancy pages, all of which work on or surrounding the PCT. Damotclese (talk) 17:56, 17 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

AVA page created today Damotclese (talk) 19:32, 17 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Archives

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7

Because I get a lot of RFC requests I move them to archives, generally twice a year. If you are looking for previous information on my Talk, you can find them in these archives. I used to just delete old stuff so if you're wanting to go back even further, ah well, that's too bad, it's gone forever:

• For the year 2013, my Archive #1: Is Found Here
• For six months of 2014, my Archive #2: Is Found Here
• For the rest of 2014, my Archive #3: Is Found Here

You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:World Vision International. Should you wish to respond, your contribution to this discussion will be appreciated. For tips, please see Wikipedia:Requests for comment § Suggestions for responding. If you wish to change the frequency or topics of these notices, or do not wish to receive them any longer, please adjust your entries at WP:Feedback request service. — Legobot (talk) 00:02, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:Bitcoin. — Legobot (talk) 00:03, 4 January 2015 (UTC) I commented on that RFC. Damotclese (talk) 17:13, 5 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals). — Legobot (talk) 00:04, 7 January 2015 (UTC) Gets in to tempates so I won't respond. Damotclese (talk) 16:34, 7 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:List of YouTube personalities. — Legobot (talk) 00:04, 10 January 2015 (UTC) I commented on this. Corporations are not people, and they are not personalities. Damotclese (talk) 16:53, 12 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Template talk:Infobox album. — Legobot (talk) 00:06, 13 January 2015 (UTC) I will not be commenting on this. Damotclese (talk) 16:21, 13 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Template talk:Infobox officeholder. — Legobot (talk) 00:07, 16 January 2015 (UTC) I did not comment on this. Damotclese (talk) 15:52, 16 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:Fractional-reserve banking. — Legobot (talk) 00:02, 20 January 2015 (UTC) Too complicated for me so I'm going to not comment. Damotclese (talk) 18:29, 20 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:Steve Scalise. — Legobot (talk) 00:03, 23 January 2015 (UTC) Ug. No thanks. Damotclese (talk) 15:56, 23 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:The Weeknd. — Legobot (talk) 00:03, 26 January 2015 (UTC) Enough editors have commented on that one so I will not. Damotclese (talk) 17:56, 26 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:Breitbart (website). — Legobot (talk) 00:04, 29 January 2015 (UTC) A page about a right wing Christian Republican extremist propaganda blog seeks to include text lifted from a second right wing Christian Republican extremist blog... Um... let me think about it... NO! Of course not. Damotclese (talk) 17:04, 29 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:Version 2.0. — Legobot (talk) 00:06, 1 February 2015 (UTC) I don't know anything about "Version 2.0" so I will not be commenting. Damotclese (talk) 16:09, 2 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:Port of Felixstowe. — Legobot (talk) 00:02, 5 February 2015 (UTC) I commented on this. Damotclese (talk) 16:58, 5 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Redondo Loves Wikipedia (2/14), Wik-Ed Women (2/17), and Unforgetting LA at the Getty (2/21)!

Dear fellow Wikipedian, The LA Wikipedia community has three events in mid-February -- please consider attending! First, we have a Valentine's Day edit-a-thon appropriately named Redondo Loves Wikipedia, which will take place at the Redondo Beach Public Library from 10am to 1pm on Saturday, February 14. Join library staff, the Redondo Beach Historical Society, and others to help improve Wikipedia's coverage of Redondo Beach! Second, we have a Wik-Ed Women editing session on Tuesday, February 17 from 6pm to 10pm at the Los Angeles Contemporary Archive downtown. This series of informal get-togethers is designed to encourage Los Angeles women-in-the-arts (though all are welcome!) to contribute their expertise to Wikipedia, specifically expanding content about women artists. Third, we have an Unforgetting LA event put on by East of Borneo in collaboration with the Getty Research Institute. Come help improve Wikipedia's coverage of LA design and architecture, and have an awesome free day at the museum -- parking will be validated for edit-a-thon participants! If you'd like to use particular books from GRI's great collection, be sure to email before 2/13 (instructions at event page). And be sure to check out our main meetup page, because we already have three SoCal events scheduled for early March! I hope to see you there! Calliopejen1 (talk) - via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:58, 5 February 2015 (UTC)[reply] Join our Facebook group here! To opt out of future mailings about LA meetups, please remove your name from this list.

Hello! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:List of Turkic dynasties and countries. — Legobot (talk) 00:03, 8 February 2015 (UTC) I commented on this. I don't know anything about Turk history so I probably did not contribute much. :) Damotclese (talk) 16:21, 9 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:Neo-feudalism. — Legobot (talk) 00:02, 12 February 2015 (UTC) I responded to that RFC. Damotclese (talk) 17:17, 12 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:Doctor. — Legobot (talk) 00:02, 15 February 2015 (UTC) I will not comment on this. Damotclese (talk) 15:51, 16 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:Glengarry Glen Ross (film). — Legobot (talk) 00:03, 18 February 2015 (UTC) I will not be commenting on this. Damotclese (talk) 00:06, 18 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:Version 2.0. — Legobot (talk) 00:04, 21 February 2015 (UTC) This is the third time I've been asked to look at this page, I won't do it again. Damotclese (talk) 16:13, 23 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Actually I did comment. Looking at the history I see I was called twwice, not three times. I also see thatthere are two RFCs pending for this article and that no third party editors have bothered to respond yet. Damotclese (talk) 16:27, 23 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:Wikia. — Legobot (talk) 00:03, 25 February 2015 (UTC) RFC tag is not worded properly. Damotclese (talk) 16:04, 25 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:Gender variance. — Legobot (talk) 00:03, 28 February 2015 (UTC) No way am I getting involved in that. Damotclese (talk) 15:54, 2 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Wikipedia:Village pump (policy). — Legobot (talk) 00:03, 3 March 2015 (UTC) A proposal to change the use of "stalker" to "watcher" apparently for no other reason than some people consider "stalker" to be offenseive. I'm opposed. Damotclese (talk) 15:48, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Template talk:Infobox officeholder. Legobot (talk) 00:04, 6 March 2015 (UTC) I will not comment on this. Damotclese (talk) 16:49, 6 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Songs. Legobot (talk) 00:06, 9 March 2015 (UTC) I will not comment on this. Damotclese (talk) 16:18, 9 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

== Please join the discussion on Talk:Glengarry Glen Ross (film) == Hello, I am soliciting comments for an RfC that is currently open on the "Glengarry Glen Ross (film)" page. There is disagreement about where the film was set (New York vs. Chicago). One of the issues is whether it is original research to cite to elements in the film itself (including props, dialogue, and a statement in the end credits that it was "filmed on location in New York City") to establish setting. Response so far in the RfC has been mixed. Comments welcome! Xanthis (talk) 14:04, 9 March 2015 (UTC) I will not be commenting on this. Damotclese (talk) 16:20, 9 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Walter O'Brien. Legobot (talk) 00:02, 13 March 2015 (UTC) Enough editors have commented on this that I do not need to. Damotclese (talk) 15:34, 13 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on User talk:Valoem/Involuntary celibacy. Legobot (talk) 00:02, 16 March 2015 (UTC) Enough editors have commented so I will not. Damotclese (talk) 15:21, 16 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Wadewitz memorial edit-a-thon (3/18), Redondo Loves Wikipedia (3/28)

Dear fellow Wikipedian, The LA Wikipedia community has two events in this second half of March -- please consider attending! First, there is a memorial edit-a-thon in honor of the prolific LA Wikipedian Adrianne Wadewitz, which is being held downtown on March 18 (tomorrow!) from noon to 8pm as a part of the American Society for Eighteenth-Century Studies' annual conference. Please drop by to contribute your own work or teach other users how to write for Wikipedia. Second, there will be an event at the Redondo Beach Public Library (following up on last month's session), in collaboration with the Redondo Beach Historical Society. Please join us from 10am to noon on Saturday, March 28 at the main branch of the Redondo Beach Public Library! I hope to see you there! Calliopejen1 (talk) - via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:39, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply] Join our Facebook group here! To opt out of future mailings about LA meetups, please remove your name from this list.

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Template talk:Afc decline. Legobot (talk) 00:05, 19 March 2015 (UTC) I do not know anything about this so I will decline to comment. Damotclese (talk) 15:29, 19 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Fire engine. Legobot (talk) 00:08, 22 March 2015 (UTC) I commented on this since I work in a forest. :) Damotclese (talk) 14:58, 23 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Advanced capitalism. Legobot (talk) 00:01, 26 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:History of economic thought. Legobot (talk) 00:01, 29 March 2015 (UTC) I will not be commenting on this. Damotclese (talk) 15:17, 30 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Federal Reserve Bank of New York Building. Legobot (talk) 00:01, 1 April 2015 (UTC) I will not be commenting on this. Damotclese (talk) 15:13, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Capital accumulation. Legobot (talk) 00:03, 4 April 2015 (UTC) I will not be responding to this RFC. Damotclese (talk) 15:21, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Capitalist mode of production. Legobot (talk) 00:03, 8 April 2015 (UTC) Pointless nonsense, I won't comment. Damotclese (talk) 14:25, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Production, costs, and pricing. Legobot (talk) 00:04, 12 April 2015 (UTC) Good grief, more right wing buttfuckery. No, I won't comment on this, either. Damotclese (talk) 15:25, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Template talk:Winners. Legobot (talk) 00:06, 15 April 2015 (UTC) Petty, I won't respond. Damotclese (talk) 15:34, 16 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:MyWikiBiz. Legobot (talk) 00:02, 19 April 2015 (UTC) I don't have time to look at this today. Damotclese (talk) 16:43, 20 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, DamOT, would you check out the Scientology organization's fake front called "Criminon" and see if the page needs updating? As you commented some time ago the fake front appears to be obsolete / defunct. The article should probably be updated to reflect that. BiologistBabe (talk) 20:25, 21 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I will check, I believe that the crime syndicate fake front is defunct, the crooks aren't using it any more but I don't know if that should be mentioned on the syndicate's page, I'll check. Damotclese (talk) 15:23, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Brown rice. Legobot (talk) 00:03, 22 April 2015 (UTC) I commented on this, the article does seem to give much weight to arsenic beyond the scope of the article. Damotclese (talk) 15:26, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Zeitgeist (film series). Legobot (talk) 00:03, 25 April 2015 (UTC) I commented on this. The video series is a conspiracy belief on the order of the so-called "911 Truth" conspiracy videos usually found no YouTube, and as such the series is best classified as Fantasy Fiction. Damotclese (talk) 16:06, 27 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

BB is still in Africa, she sent me an email asking that I comment on a page but I can't find it. Since you work in her department did she mention which page it was? Was it locomotive related?

By the way, this is Karen, I finally created an account after getting badgered by BB. ha ha. She can be a beeyotch some times but we love her. TrainsOnTime (talk) 17:40, 27 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

As a long time editor, you should know that recruiting friends or associates to participate in deletions discussion is looked poorly upon. Please do not continue to recruit your friends and associates to try to sway the deletion discussion. Thank you. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 17:36, 29 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Good grief. And so very typical of some of the abusive editors we find on Wikipedia. Gogo, you know nothing of who I work with, why my colleagues are, what their specialities are, nothing. Go away and mind your own business and stop trying to interdict editors working on the project. You might also look up Wikipedia guidelines on civility. Thanks. Damotclese (talk) 15:56, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Ha, thanks, Damo, I had to laugh some in anticipation and expectation that you never speak with me ever again because someone on Wikipedia told you to. Blissful silence at last! TrainsOnTime (talk) 15:59, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Re your message: It is obvious from various posts that you know each other and that's fine, but the specific act of recruiting people you know to sway a discussion is looked poorly upon.

Funny that you mention Wikipedia's civility guideline because I think you are the one who needs to read it. I was completely civil to you while you were not to me. If you feel that I overstepped my bounds by either reminding you of Wikipedia's appropriate guidelines and policies, feel free to report me to WP:ANI or any other appropriate venue. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 16:58, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

That is always the case, you don't understand how Wikipedia guidelines work and yet you feel you have no inhibitions about "explaining" it to editors who do. That's rather very typical of some people and why so many editors eventually abandon the project, because of uncivil, unprofessional people interdicting editors' contributions.

Don't forget that Wikipedia is a volunteer effort, and your violations of Wikipedia civility guidelines hampers volunteer's motivations. But I see you don't accept the admonishments. If you do it again I will request that a moderator to evaluate your behavior. Gogo Dodo Also I would appreciate it if you avoid posting anything further to my Talk: page. When you feel the need to violate civility, please go elsewhere. Thanks. Damotclese (talk) 22:02, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Oh yes, by the way, since I work to be polite and professional, I will not be responding to any further nonsense other than to direct your behavior to approriate moderation. Thanks. Damotclese (talk) 22:04, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I had one of these people send me email complaining about an update to the ATCS protocol series so I disabled email from other editors. Yes, I think most editors give up when, but if you go to the meetings in Los Angeles you get to meet serious, dedicated editors and it makes up for the uncivilized ones. TrainsOnTime (talk) 22:15, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not going anywhere, at least not until I finish the Xorail page :) -- unless you want to do it. :) But I don't mind, this is expected, one can't get discouraged by a few, this is a volunteer effort for the passionate, people who believe in Wikipedia and volunteer time to make it better. You'll recall the a.r.s fiasco which resulted in Scientology getting banned, now that was a Wikifight! Damotclese (talk) 22:19, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Ale Resnik. Legobot (talk) 00:04, 28 April 2015 (UTC) I commented on this. The fact that the editor noted he has an interest in the proposed text does not detract from the legitimacy of the contents of the proposed update. I suggested he proceed with the update. Damotclese (talk) 20:24, 28 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I see that they deleted File 18 anyway despite no serious reason. I did like the editor's comments on why the decision was made, though, that was done politely and with consideration. It's a shame that a page that has been vandalized and opposed for so many years was eventually deleted, now a couple of thousand links on the network are broken. That should make the web site owners somewhat annoyed. TrainsOnTime (talk) 16:17, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah. --sigh-- Some times you win, some times other editors win. The problem here is that researchers lose. Damotclese (talk) 16:42, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, Karen, also check the Grade Crossing Predictor page which does not exist yet... Though I suppose if you create that one we'll just have some unprofessional yahoo delete it -- that seems to be a growing problem on Wiki these past 4, 5 years. :( Damotclese (talk) 22:06, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I am working on the page this weekend, I'll post it when it's completed. Do you have others that are not present that should be? TrainsOnTime (talk) 22:10, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Rape jihad. Legobot (talk) 00:04, 1 May 2015 (UTC) I commente don this after checking the proposed / current referenced material and noted that the source appears to be legitimate. This is a highly contended page with likely vandalism which usually calls for more references and citations to bolster existing references -- something which assists editors in reducing (if not eliminating) Wikiwars. The subject material is depressing, but the vandalism doesn't help. Damotclese (talk) 15:45, 1 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]