Hi, I answered to this discussion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Automobile_Dacia Regards — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.56.241.24 (talk) 15:53, 17 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I answered once again. Regards — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.56.241.24 (talk) 06:11, 22 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Avenir Telecom is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Avenir Telecom until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Smerdis of Tlön - killing the human spirit since 2003! 05:45, 31 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Please don't create straw man arguments or jump to conclusions. The Renault Z.E. *is* a range and more Z.E. vehicles are in development right now as we speak. This is hardly speculation or wishful thinking nor an attempt to create a new reality or distort the future: to suggest so is ridiculous. The FR Wikipedia reflects the fact that the Z.E. vehicles are a range in their own Renault template, so the EN wikipedia community should learn from that. Also, I could just as easily accuse you of not having a logical argument in your attempt to remove this change.

Thanks for your answer, I appreciate you are open to discussion.

First, I don't think the inclussion of that type of cars on the French Wikipedia template automatically means it must be included here. The French Wikipedia articles rely largely on primary sources (in the French Renault article they even take the "revisionist" official version of the company that erases Louis Renault as a founder to justify the expropriation). Besides, the French Wikipedia can be an indicator, but each Wiki determines its own consensus.

Second, my concerns are wider than those you mention, but I'll respond that. I don't say the ZE cars aren't real, I say their inclussion in the template within a separate group give them undue weight here and now. In many cases, and I uphold my opinion because is a fact even the ZE cars articles accept, they only are derivatives of conventional cars (Fluence "ZE", Kangoo "ZE"). The sales are insignificant. They are no specially innovatives or capables as, for example, the Nissan LEAF is (by the way, that is the only electric car of the Renault-Nissan Alliance with a moderated success, if you can include the category electric cars in the Nissan template, that will give more credibility to your position). The only really noteworthy electric cars of Renault (the Zoe and the Twizy) are included anyway in my version of the template. The others can be accessed through the conventional cars' articles, if someone is interested in that type of vehicles.

To avoid this discussion becames stale and we edit-warring each other ad infinitum, I'll bring uninvolved editors to it. They can give a fresh look to it. Not something for my own benefit, because I don't know what they think, but they can help to establish a consensus.

Regards. --Urbanoc (talk) 11:55, 11 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There's far too much talk and stagnation on Wikipedia — I've seen discussions go on for two years without a change being made — but I'll go so far as to say that Z.E. is much more than a range of cars by Renault as they are not ICE vehicles at all. They are EVs, a completely different class of vehicle. Renault is making an dedicated commitment to develop these EVs and bring them to market and the fact that two of the four current Z.E. vehicles are based on existing ICE vehicle bodies doesn't alter that fact. We'll see what Renault will announce next for Z.E. but according to Renault this class/range/whatever will only grow. reinthal (talk) 06:55, 14 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well, my view is the company's efforts to campaign for the electric vehicle are irrelevant, because they didn't meet expectations and not generated a sound effect in third-party coverage (except for blogs and company-paid articles). I think the future of the electric cars from "mid-size" carmakers as Renault will depend of two key factors:

1) Europe don't fall anymore: if the European car market (one of the more open to electric mobility because the use of non-fossil energies as nuclear) continue its falling, Renault will never be able to reduce prizes based on volume, and the EVs never will be rivals for the economy cars (like Renault's Dacias), which are the fastest selling because of its affordability and easy-to-fix features.

2) China really bets on EVs: Many of the expectatives of Renault-Nissan are in that market, because it can bring the much needed sales volume and make the EV projects a source of profit and not only a way to through out money. If the EVs are not profitable, I don't see them a long future.

Anyway, its all speculation. The thing is today the Renault's EVs are not relevant. For me, the fact two or them don't be more that variants of conventional cars is really significant, because it reduce its distinctiveness. And, at the end, the electric cars are cars, because apart from its engine, they share a similar configuration to its internal combustion equivalents. If some day are successful, they won't need its own template's group because they will be industry's standards. At present, they are more a curiossity and give them its own group seems "green" propaganda.

Changing the subject, I propose to you eliminate the Twizy and the Zoe from current cars' list to avoid repeating them. It didn't mean any other change, the current template's layout (with the electric car's group) would be preserved, at least until a consensus arises.

Regards.--Urbanoc (talk) 11:51, 14 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hope you don't mind, but I've added all the articles that you've created to your user page Seqqis (talk) 03:20, 22 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No problem :-) Regards. Urbanoc (talk) 15:57, 22 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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The clear template is not necessary simply because it lets too much empty space between the last paragraph and the references section. It has a definitely better layout without it as it looks more compact. I can understand the use of the clear template when it's really necessary, such as when you want to separate the first generation article from the lead section, with the table of contents and the infobox, in an automobile article. But here it is quite obviously not necessary. The references sections is acceptable to be right after the text. You may also check the guidelines regarding blank lines at Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Layout. However, I appreciate your interest into the subject of the article and I hope we can get to an understanding on this issue. Thank you. Regards, BaboneCar (talk) 10:10, 2 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I didn't see that way, thanks for your explanation, I appreciate it :).I thought it improved the design of the article, but thinking about what you say you're right, it is not necessary that extra space. Anyway, I want to make it clear I didn't put into question all your edits, it was a problem with that in particular because at first sight I considered it detrimental. I think you are a constructive editor, there is no many in vehicles' articles. Despite we don't always agree I think you do an excellent job with car articles and you really improved the carmaker's templates. Regards. --Urbanoc (talk) 15:34, 2 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Hi. There is a debate at Template:Infobox automobile whether to change the title style from how it has been so far, from outside the infobox to the inside. If you consider that it should remain outside the infobox (as in Template:Infobox company for example), please express your opinion at Template talk:Infobox automobile. Thank you. Regards, BaboneCar (talk) 10:21, 21 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for telling me. I indeed prefer the title outside, but it seems there is an overwhelming consensus to put the title inside. Basically, the desicion is to make a copycat of the French infobox. I don't think French Wiki can be considered an example, but my opinion is clearly a minority. Regards. Urbanoc (talk) 12:21, 21 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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There's no doubt that it's the same championship - but it was orginally called the World Drivers' Championship, and it introduces fewer anomalies to call it that, especially in the early years. None of the Formula One races in 1952 or 1953 counted for the championship, for one thing. Ian Dalziel (talk) 14:38, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I guess it could accurately be called a Formula One world championship from the year the Indianapolis 500 no longer counted - the 500 has never been run for F1 cars. There's only the one championship, which has been held since 1950 - the name and the rules have changed along the way, though. For that matter, it continued from the pre-war European Drivers' Championship. Ian Dalziel (talk) 15:11, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. I don't understand why did you revert the whole of my recent edits in the article, as they adhere to the point supported by you in the discussion on the talk page, which in my opinion is definitely correct. Sales figures on the Automobile Dacia page should only count the sales under the Dacia brand, which is what I emphasized in my edits (in fact keeping the note that was already present there). You also reverted some edits where I added information about the history of the company, which do not have anything in common with the discussion on the talk page.

I see that the discussion on the article's talk page has got to a standing point and I think that it should not prevent from adding further useful information. The reference you provided as an example is very clear in this regard: the sales statistics document on the Renault website counts the Renault and the Dacia sales separately (including those of the common models, such as the Logan, Sandero, Duster, Lodgy or Dokker). To conclude, the edits I did in the Sales section are in line with the point in your edit summary, therefore I think they should not be reverted. I added a reply with my opinion on the talk page of the article and will add the information back if you have nothing against it. Regards, BaboneCar (talk) 14:24, 3 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. I'll reverted myself and return to your last version. I wasn't happy with some of the prose, but after I read your explanation in the article talk I saw my concerns were incorrect. Regards. Urbanoc (talk) 01:28, 4 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Thank you for the advice about the Nissan logo! Now only i realized what i've done — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anuvarshanw (talk • contribs) 22:00, 9 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Thank you for your contribution. As you said the name of the public company is Altarea SCA, but only used for financial purposes; the name of the company as officially referred to for business purposes and the general public is Altarea Cogedim. We will change the infobox then. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AltareaCogedim (talk • contribs) 17:10, 6 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

No, you misunderstood me. The legal name, except in the case of articles covering divisions or brands from larger businesses, always is the one used in the infobox, it is a Wikipedia convention. Altarea Cogedim is a mere trading name, regardless of the importance the company gives it. You can search through similar articles if you don't believe me. By the way, be careful of not being over-promotional, as the article seems to be moving on that direction. Regards. --Urbanoc (talk) 18:13, 6 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hope you don't mind again. But I've made a few changes to your user page. Seqqis (talk) 03:06, 28 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

No problem, Seqqis. I have neglected my user page anyways. Thanks for your interest in my work. Regards. --Urbanoc (talk) 03:21, 28 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Do you think this Renault business has reached the threshold for an ANI case? I for one am tired of being called names and accused of stuff I haven't done; and there are those threats of sock/meat puppetry and bad press, etc... against Wikipedia. Not having been involved in an ANI incident before it's new territory for me.... Vrac (talk) 14:55, 21 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Vrac, I wasn't in an ANI either, but I do think the IP's behaviour is borderline to say the least. He always demands "good faith" criteria for his edits but considers all the editors opposing him "dishonest." He's very uncivil, makes baseless acussations and never wants to find a compromise. In brief, maybe a case at ANI would be the only course of action to confront this situation. Urbanoc (talk) 17:11, 21 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The IP is a fool, but I also think that you guys are overreacting a bit at times. I don't have the time to read everything (full-time job + 8-month baby) but why was the text about the reason for privatization removed? And the Laguna was the first car to get five EuroNCAP stars, which might just be enough for an inclusion at Renault - or not, but I don't see it as an immediate revert. I feel like a bit of politeness and also diversion onto other pages will calm this guy down considerably. Cheers,  Mr.choppers | ✎  02:27, 24 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]