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Talk:Beyoncé (album): Difference between revisions

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:Y'know, I can't find it, but one of the sources near that billboard cite said "alt-R&B" or something to that effect. Can't find it now, but I'll look in a second to dig it up. [[User:Andrzejbanas|Andrzejbanas]] ([[User talk:Andrzejbanas|talk]]) 12:00, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
:Y'know, I can't find it, but one of the sources near that billboard cite said "alt-R&B" or something to that effect. Can't find it now, but I'll look in a second to dig it up. [[User:Andrzejbanas|Andrzejbanas]] ([[User talk:Andrzejbanas|talk]]) 12:00, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
::Soderberg's review [http://www.spin.com/articles/beyonce-impulsive-album-review/ on ''Spin''] states "alt-R&B". <span style="color:#3C0F85">'''[[User:Prism|pedro]]''' &#124; ''[[User talk:Prism|talk]]''</span> 12:18, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
::Soderberg's review [http://www.spin.com/articles/beyonce-impulsive-album-review/ on ''Spin''] states "alt-R&B". <span style="color:#3C0F85">'''[[User:Prism|pedro]]''' &#124; ''[[User talk:Prism|talk]]''</span> 12:18, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
{{Talk:Beyoncé (album)/GA1}}


==Pedro's review==
==Pedro's review==

Revision as of 02:54, 2 August 2014

Recording

With the limited sources, it is natural for this section to be somewhat lacking. However, maybe it's possible to dig deeper or try to find more sources to see what you can pull from them. Some points that stand out:

  • The first paragraph is choppy: "Initial recording began at a beach enclave in The Hamptons, New York during the summer of 2012. "Pretty Hurts" and "Flawless" were partially recorded there. Beyoncé was accompanied by husband Jay-Z and their daughter, as well as producers and songwriters including Sia Furler,[5] Timbaland, Justin Timberlake and The-Dream.[3]" --In this excerpt, the second sentence (mentioning the songs) is inconsistent and random. Try to create a narrative of the entire paragraph, and the possible intent behind this "mass gathering", and then try to work in the result of this meeting: the composition of the album's first recorded songs "Pretty Hurts" and "Flawless". And then say something like, "She eventually released 'Flawless' on her soundcloud' to mixed reception (since people were not used to this aggressive sound and the song's language).
  •  Done
  • "Beyoncé was inspired to interpolate archive footage from her childhood of her losing the television competition Star Search as she felt it aided the aggression of the song." How so? I remember her saying this, but as written, it's not clear why a childhood talent show would "aid" in a song's aggression. Are you trying to say that their loss made them (or her) stronger and more hardened, which ultimately manifested itself in the more aggressive, dominant persona displayed in the song etc? If so, you need to say so.
  •  Done
  • "Boots, an unknown producer most known for fronting rock band Blonds"-- awkward.
  •  Done Adjusted.
  • ..."pojects previous to Beyoncé or how Beyoncé found his demo, only confirming he signed a publishing deal with Roc Nation in June 2013." Using Beyonce twice is awkward when read aloud, although it's clear that one's a reference to the album and the other is to the singer.
  •  Done Adjusted.
  • " but she was more enthused by his more experimental material"--awkward due to repetition of "more".
  •  Done Adjusted.
  • ""I'm Onto You"—which later became "Haunted"—believing..." I would suggest that you try to not introduce a song title using dashes-- it renders it insignificant, as in :"she was more enthused by his more experimental material. Having recorded a piano demo on his iPhone, Boots reluctantly played "I'm Onto You--which by the way, if you wanna know, even though it not important, became "Haunted"--believing the instrumental to be lacklustre.") Create the story of how the song came to be, explain that the song eventually became known as "Haunted", and the previous title "I'm Onto You", was instead recorded as a phrase in the song's refrain etc.
  •  Done Adjusted.

due to time constraints, I will do a more thorough review in a day or so. There's a lot that can be amended for this section. Orane (talk) 02:42, 4 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Journalist: Thank you for these amendments and I have used some of your wording as it works well. One thing I'm confused about is in the YouTube Self-Titled series, it appears (to me) she is recording "Partition" in the Hampton's Studio, yet the album credits assert it was recorded at Jungle/Oven. This makes me wonder whether the demo/initial composition was done at the Hamptons, and the full recording later. Am I inferring too much from the video if this was included, and do you think it should be?

Revisiting Beyoncé: Could 'Jealous' Be Its Most Important Song?

Simon (talk) 10:00, 18 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If needed

Simon (talk) 05:05, 19 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Accolades

"Beyoncé" World's Best Album - WORLD MUSIC AWARDS 2014 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_awards_and_nominations_received_by_Beyonc%C3%A9#World_Music_Awards http://vote.worldmusicawards.com/selectnomination.asp?cat=2 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.154.61.192 (talk) 00:57, 15 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

@JennKR: I'm not the biggest fan of the current organization of the article, particularly the "Recording" section. With no clear chronology of how/when the recording took place, this is a strange structure to adopt. From reading a couple of the sources, and from general knowledge of how the recording stalled, restarted, and songs were scrapped or went through different stages (eg Boots being accredited "additional producer" status on "Jealous" or "Partition" because he added a sound/instrument well after the recording of the song was done), it seems strange that the section would imply that she went to the Hamptons, then went to Boots, then had "Later recording sessions". For all we know, she probably went to Boot's in the last stages of production, which is why he was able to become "additional producer" on so many of the songs.

Additionally, the article in general lacks a "Background" section, which, specific to this album, is important in detailing her early motherhood, going back into the studio after the release of 4 and her subsequent hiatus, and the media focus on the scrapped first draft of her album, her going on tour without releasing new music etc etc etc. The impact of the album's release is dependent on all of these factors, none of which seem to be mentioned explicitly, or given due weight. Orane (talk) 01:53, 28 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Journalist: Hello, hope you're well! I've modified the structure of the recording section and included a background section with particular focus on "Bow Down/I Been On". Do you have any thoughts on its current state? I'm planning on re-writing the Composition section as I don't think it goes into detail enough. Best, —JennKR | 23:25, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Promotion

Beyoncé Lands Series of HBO Concert Segments: "Beyoncé: X10"

The 10 installments will air every Sunday evening at 8:55 p.m. ET/PT ahead of the seventh and final season of True Blood, which begins at 9 p.m. ET/PT on June 22.

Taped performances of "Blow/Cherry", "Drunk in Love", "Ghost/Haunted", "Flawless/Yoncé", "Get Me Bodied/Baby Boy/Diva", "Run The World (Girls)", "Heaven", "Partition", "Why Don't You Love Me?" and "XO" will air as part of the series.

The performances were shot in various cities around the world from Beyonce's Mrs. Carter World Tour. The tour began in April 2013 in Belgrade, Serbia and ended in March 2014 in Lisbon, Portugal.


http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/beyonce-lands-series-hbo-concert-713133 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.244.5.103 (talk) 00:59, 20 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done More relevant to TMCSWT page. Best, —JennKR | 01:37, 20 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Genre

Beyonce also includes elements of dream pop (ghost/haunted), neo soul (Rocket), and hip-pop (DiL, Yonce, Mine, Flawless) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.153.112.6 (talk) 20:26, 21 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Please provide reliable sources to back up your assertions. Adabow (talk) 21:01, 21 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The Atlantic

There is a lot in this interview about the cover of the album that may be used in the article. My love is love (talk) 01:20, 30 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

 Done I'll incorporate this -- It's a great read, cheers! —JennKR | 22:27, 5 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Sample of "Bow Down/I Been On"

If compare the sample used in the article to the original recording, there are differences between them. Perhaps change the title to "Flawless" instead? Simon (talk) 11:29, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Potentially, but I'll see if I can sample the original first... (I'll update you here if not). —JennKR | 12:55, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Updated the file with the original Soundcloud demo. Best, —JennKR | 19:20, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Alternative R&B

The source cited for alternative R&B is Billboard, which states "Much like her sister Solange's compilation "Saint Heron," which featured vocal-heavy, minimalist R&B compilation "Saint Heron," "Beyoncé" signifies where the future of R&B is heading, with less focus on beats and more emphasis on emotive falsetto, stream-of-consciousness ideas and the occasional burst of braggadocio". Is futuristic R&B really equivalent to alt R&B? Adabow (talk) 10:41, 11 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Y'know, I can't find it, but one of the sources near that billboard cite said "alt-R&B" or something to that effect. Can't find it now, but I'll look in a second to dig it up. Andrzejbanas (talk) 12:00, 11 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Soderberg's review on Spin states "alt-R&B". pedro | talk 12:18, 13 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Pedro's review

@JennKR: I did some minor copyedits on the article, however there are still some confusing points:

Recording
  • Did Beyoncé and Jay-Z live somewhere in New York or specifically in The Hamptons? Take a look at the opening sentence—it's a bit confusing.
  • Not Done: is it the comma construction that is confusing, i.e. "The Hamptons, New York,"? It's just that place/state in prose should be formatted so there is a comma after the state, i.e. Los Angeles, California, etc.
  • "In mid-2013, a newly-discovered musician called Boots, most known for fronting rock band Blonds, signed a publishing deal with Jay-Z's Roc Nation. He ultimately produced eighty percent of Beyoncé. In an interview for Pitchfork, Boots avoided answering questions about how Beyoncé discovered his demo or his work previous to Beyoncé." Could you reword this? It doesn't flow well.
  • Done: does it flow better now or do you think there should be no mention of Pitchfork?
  • "During its composition, Beyoncé was motivated to interpolate archive footage of the television competition Star Search, her strength from the loss manifesting itself in the more aggressive, dominant persona in the song" This sentence should mention that she participated in Star Search, as it isn't obvious by reading it.
  • Done: modified.
Composition
  • "Like previous releases" (needs rewording as "Unlike previous releases" is on the previous paragraph) of whom?
  • Done: modified.
  • "sees it rarely discussed except when defended" this doesn't aid understanding
  • Done: removed.
  • "Perhaps the album's most explicit song" according to whom?

More to come soon. pedro | talk 18:51, 13 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Simon

Composition

  • Done: linked.
  • Done: rearranged.
  • Done: modified.
  • Comment: I think they're synonymous, it's just Alternative R&B is a better description than that or even PBR&B (as I think we should avoid abbreviations). A Spin source identifies this album as alt-R&B so I've included it too.
  • I am not so sure. NME also described this album as "future R&B". Oh, and according to Spin "No Angel" is a chillwave song. I think you should add that information. Simon (talk) 02:15, 17 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@JennKR: Are there any ideas about my above comment? Simon (talk) 13:26, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@: The reviews definitely seemed to characterize it as electronic R&B, but another user put a strong case forward for it not to be used as it isn't really a genre (i.e. there is no "electronic R&B" article). The fusion of electronic music with R&B I believe gives rise to alternative R&B, as its use is limited in contemporary R&B and not at all in traditional R&B. Plus, there are multiple sources that attest its ~future R&B, which is synonymous with alternative R&B. —JennKR | 16:02, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not Done: it's definitely eat. Although I did noticed that there is some disparity among the sources. The article reads "Can you eat my skittles/ That's the sweetest in the middle", Pitchfork reads "Can you lick my skittles/ That's the sweetest in the middle" and Beyoncé's website is "Can you eat the skiddles/It's the sweetest in the middle. Naturally I'd source Bey's website but as far as I'm aware "skiddles" is not a word, unless it's American vernacular or Beyoncé's vernacular/cadence, which may be problematic to readers as its not immediately clear. What do you think I should do? I'll try and find if I can source it elsewhere in the meantime. —JennKR | 18:47, 19 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Visuals and artwork

  • Not Done: for the reasons Prism touched on. I think listing all locations would be superfluous considering there are lots of separate articles. Do you think there is another way that this can be approached? I'm not a huge fan of the way it lists them either.
  • Done: This is a slight misstatement. The album isn't really about rebelling against perfection, but the visuals are. This should be mentioned as first instance and be explored further (I'll examime the Self-Titled series and re-write this bit). —JennKR | 14:16, 16 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If needed

Mexico

I found here that the album peaked at number 34 on the Top 100 Mexico chart published by AMPROFON for the period between December 23, 2013 and December 29, 2013. But other than AMPROFON's Twitter and Facebook page I can't find anything about their chart. However, I saw that links from Twitter and Facebook are used here and here and in many other albums articles. My love is love (talk) 17:27, 17 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Vinyl release