Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for recognizing the benefits of becoming a registered user, creating your user/talk page, and your contributions to this free encyclopedia. If you need help, check out useful resources & Getting Help below, ask on his talk page, or ask question on your talk page & add {{Help me}}. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by using four tildes (~~~~) after your text entry, or by clicking if shown, in order to produce your username & date. Please always fill in edit summary field with a brief description of your article or talk page edits (optional when just adding your communications on talk pages). Happy editing! Getting started Getting started • A tutorial • Wikipedia's five pillars Edit a page • Be bold in editing • Upload and use images Add hidden comments for other editors Manual of Style (MOS) • How-to guide manual for Wikipedia Getting mentored Getting help Where to ask questions or make comments • Help with basic issues Frequently asked questions (FAQ) • Tips Help directory (lists of informative, instructional, & consultation pages) Help desk (ask questions about Wikipedia) The Teahouse (get help from peers & experienced editors) The Village Pump (discussions for more extensive technical operations, policies, & projects of Wikipedia) Request administrator attention Policies and guidelines Neutral point of view (NPOV) • No original research (NOR) Edit warring and the three-revert rule (3RR) Verifiability • Reliable sources (RS) • Citing sources (CS) Use of primary (PS) vs. other sources • External links (EL) List of official policies • List of guidelines • What Wikipedia is not Sock puppetry (multiple accounts for improper use) • Spam Vandalism • Conflict of interest (COI) Copyrights • Non-free content (NFC) Deletion policy (DP) The community Build consensus (CON) • Dispute resolution (DR) Assume good faith (AGF) • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks (NPA) • No legal threats (NLT) Community portal • Mailing lists User pages • Talk pages • Chat rooms (using IRC channels) Join or create a WikiProject team (focus on a topic of interest or Wikipedia task) The Signpost (newspaper with stories about Wikipedia) Writing articles Basics for creating an article • Notability of topic for creating an article Wizard for submitting a new article Developing the article • Criteria for the perfect article Showcase of best articles meeting content/editing guidelines Article stubs (deemed too short for encyclopedic coverage) Considerations for biographies of living persons (BLP) Peer reviews of articles (request or nominate an article for review) Article clean up: • General resources • Spam • Vandalism Categorizing article topics (CAT) • Disambiguation (DAB) of article titles Miscellaneous tools and support Awards (rewarding registered contributors for their achievements & hard work) Wikipedia screen interfaces: • Standard options • Customized changes Useful message/symbol templates Tools to enhance functionality for users • Archive talk page contents Translating foreign language Wikipedia articles for English articles

• Archive 1 for this Talk page

Your recent edit to the article for Chatham Borough, New Jersey added the parm "adj=j" to several occurrences of the convert template. Yet Template:Convert has nothing about this parameter and it's unclear how this functions based on the documentation. Your edit summary states that you "updated applicable Convert entries to avoid text wrap with first number and and first word of any fully spelled-out unit of measurement" but what is this based on? Alansohn (talk) 19:22, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Check out Template Talk:Convert#Problems with separation of Number from Units of Measurement at End of a Text Line.. I raised this issue and they provided this function. I asked them to included this adj=j with a description in the Template. It works as I described it in the edit history. As an example, it would avoid any split between "32" and "Miles" or "32" and "Square" (for "Square Miles") at the end of a line. Other editors have been asking for this function over the years. The team felt it was time to allow this option. It is not required when abbr=on is used since that function uses abbreviated unit of measurements that avoid text wraps. It is not required when adj=on is used since that is used with hyphenated numbers and units of measurement that avoid text wrap. In all regular cases, the second displayed "converted" number uses abbreviated units of measurement, which avoids text wrap.Wondering55 (talk) 20:59, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Please read Metropolitan Transportation Authority (New York) and New York City Transit Authority. The MTA doesn't run anything directly, it's an omnibus agency which works through separate operating agencies like the NYCTA. Please be sure of your facts before you edit war to support erroneous ones. Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:26, 29 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

• When you revert someone's update, it is proper to provide an explanation so that a user can then understand the legitimacy of the change or provide further clarification to try and reach a common agreement. do not assume there is any edit war just because I have a misunderstanding of your intent. you seem to be very knowledgeable.Wondering55 (talk) 21:57, 29 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The buses that run out of GWBBS are not part of the MTA Regional System, they're part of the normal bus operations, and the name for the entity that runs them is either "New York City Transit" or "MTA New York City Transit". The regional bus entity is something else entirely and has nothing to do with those buses. So, if you don't know what you're talking about, it's not a good idea to idea war in support of it when someone corrects you, whether or not they provide an edit summary. Now, you've been given the correct information (twice), so I expect not to see you reverting the accurate information I provided again. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:58, 29 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

If you had originally revised the subsection to "MTA New York City Transit" (as shown), which is the New York City Transit Authority, as originally shown before all of these back and forth revisions, all of this confusing back and forth could have been avoided. "New York City Transit" was never the correct official name. The subsection should have the correct full official name as currently shown.

According to the Wikipedia article on the MTA Regional Bus Operations, the MTA New York City Bus system, which includes the listed bus routes running by the GWBBS, are part of the MTA Regional Bus Operations. If that article is incorrect, please feel free to update it.

Neither of your two previous explanations properly addressed these issues, which is why we had to go back and forth before we both agreed on the current correct subsection title. If someone corrects another person, an explanation is needed since NO one should presuppose they have a monopoly on the "correct" version. Hope that we can work together in the future. I am always open to alternate suggestions or pointing out any fallacies in my explanations.Wondering55 (talk) 03:38, 30 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Wondering55: I don't know of anyone who questions that the Kelly email exists. We just don't want to get ahead of the story. The mere fact that an email exists with a heading that says "From: Bridget Anne Kelly" does not necessarily mean that she's the one who sent it, or that it was ever sent at all. Now, we have no reason to believe that she isn't the one who sent it, and we have no reason to believe that it wasn't sent (after all, there is also a Wildstein Email that purports to respond to the Email). The point is that this is going to be the subject of litigation, possibly criminal prosecutions. In Wikipedia, we want to be precise on this. Famspear (talk) 02:18, 14 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I understand what you are trying to say. However, Wikipedia is not a legal court of review. Otherwise, almost everything in Wikipedia would have to be reported as "allegedly", until proven in a court of law. The email was provided as evidence and must be assumed to be legitimate and sent by Bridget Anne Kelly, who did not deny it was hers.

If we would go with your scenario, then every other single communication, whether e-mail or text, in this article needs to be qualified as allegedly sent by someone.

It might be OK to say "allegedly" if someone claimed that an e-mail was sent by someone else, but when the documents are in hand, let's not play the defense's game in a Wikipedia article.

You will notice that I went along with your revision to only state that she advised Wildstein that it was time for traffic problems rather than instructing him to shut down the toll lanes.

As you can already see, Dezatsu has already reversed your changes and provided the necessary reasons. Let us continue to work together. Thanks for taking the time to provide your perspective.Wondering55 (talk) 02:57, 14 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. A few minutes ago, I posted another comment in the talk page for the article that explains my thinking in more detail. The point I am wanting to make is that it is the source that should make the allegation, not Wikipedia editors, and the source should be clearly cited in the article. I agree with you that we would not recommend using the term "allegedly" in Wikipedia each and every time a reliable source makes an allegation. Where to draw the line is a matter of professional judgment (I'm an attorney and former broadcast news reporter, and that's where I'm "coming from" so to speak). In this case, a tiny, cautionary "bell" went off in my head as I was reading the article. However, consensus seems to be that the article is OK as is. Famspear (talk) 05:08, 14 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"Chatham Borough" is the borough; "Chatham Township" is the surrounding township; "Chatham" (without any qualifier) is inherently unclear, which is why disambiguation is required. In cases where there is no ambiguity, dropping the type of municipality may well make sense, as with Summit or Mountainside (not Summit City or Mountainside Borough). Where there are pairs of municipalities (such as Mendham Borough / Township or Neptune City / Township), the consensus has always been to include the type of government in the title of the article and in any references to the place within an article, and as such consensus is to use "Chatham Borough" throughout the article. There is already a semi-active discussion at WT:NJ to address the issue of including / excluding type of government where there is no ambiguity, and you may want to reach out there to generate consensus otherwise regarding referring to "Chatham Borough" solely using "Chatham". Alansohn (talk) 05:06, 28 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I can see using Chatham Borough in the title to avoid any confusion, but once the article starts there does not appear to be any need to make any further distinctions between "Chatham" and "Chatham Township" since it is very clear from the first lede sentence and the article title which Chatham is being talked about. I do not perceive any confusion with this approach. In fact, it appears that the majority consensus after 12 years since the article was first created was to identify the municipality as Chatham, and not Chatham Borough.

Your edits seem to go against what has been accepted for 12 years in this particular article. In fact, the way the article is set up now, it is even more confusing since Chatham and Chatham Borough are used interchangeably throughout the article. The lede also starts out calling the municipality "Chatham", and then inexplicably starts referring to it as "Chatham Borough". People, who live there, and reporters regularly refer to it as Chatham, and NOT Chatham Borough. The consensus in Wikipedia articles is to refer to an item by what it is most commonly described and recognized as. Chatham is most commonly described and recognized as "Chatham" and NOT "Chatham Borough". Can we reach some compromise where Chatham can be used when the sentence does not also refer to Chatham Township, and Chatham Borough if the sentence also refers to Chatham Township. I look forward to your response. Wondering55 (talk) 19:40, 28 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Wondering55,

The "30 years" ref for Mr. Durango's testimony is to a shared transcript, true.

However, the shared URL drops the '#page=89' suffix I had provided, which took the reader to the page that Acrobat Reader considers Page 89 (but labeled "86"), which has Mr. Durango's exact comments.

Is there a way to share the reference, and still direct folks to page 86 (89) for the "30 years" comment?

I don't want the reader to have to wade through 230 pages of transcript, when he can be directed to the exact page.

Thanks. JackGavin (talk) 17:05, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

• I just added the reference page, which is shown with ^: 89 after the citation number, which is in parentheses. Wondering55 (talk) 17:57, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not familiar with that notation, but I guess that's what we have. Can we handle the 86/89 confusion as something like^{: 89 aka page 86} ?

Thanks JackGavin (talk) 18:06, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I found https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Rp which explains the RP. Despite what Acrobat Reader thinks, the displayed page number is 86, so I'd change the thing to ^: 86. JackGavin (talk) 18:21, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I have asked about how to handle the page numbering mismatch at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Rp#When_Acrobat_Reader_page_number_mismatches_displayed_page_number. JackGavin (talk) 19:00, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Generally, I have seen the electronic page number cited for any citation to an electronic document if it is different than a physically shown page number. I have never seen both the electronic and the physical page number shown for a source. I posted a comment on the topic page that you linked to. Let's wait to hear back before we do anything further. Wondering55 (talk) 20:35, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It appears that the standard convention is to show the page number that actually appears at the bottom of a page (in our case, p. 86) from a cited source rather than the electronic page number. Identifying the page shown at the bottom of the page would require an interested Internet users to search and scroll before getting to the correct page.

Identifying the electronic page number would get an interested reader directly to the correct page (in our case, 89 of 230).

Please advise which convention you prefer to appear in the article, ^{: p. 86} or ^{: 89 of 230} and I will change it. Wondering55 (talk) 15:33, 30 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! Your submission of Fort Lee lane closure scandal at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Yoninah (talk) 16:26, 9 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. I am using the Cite Templates from the editor and the date format used there is Day Month Year, but you are correcting these dates using the American notation of Month Day Year. Which one is correct? Cwobeel (talk) 20:23, 20 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

To be consistent with all other dates cited in the Fort Lee lane closure scandal article, the current format is Month Day Year. Date formats are typically decided at the beginning when an article is beginning to be published. There are a variety of date formats that can eventually be made as a consistent format for a particular article. Some articles even used different date formats for a citation article date and a citation retrieval/access date. There is NO standard correct format for all articles. There is a problem when citation templates are used to automatically add in missing details since it could be adding the wrong date format upon which an article is using. You then need to go in and correct the date fromat to be consistent with the Wikipedia article. Wondering55 (talk) 20:47, 20 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Cwobeel: normally an article related to a specific country will use the date format appropriate to that country. For non-military topics in the US, that's MDY, not DMY. (See WP:STRONGNAT.) As Wondering says, when an article is first written, ("published" isn't the right term for a number of reasons, but I digress) we retain a number of formatting and style conventions (variation of English, date format, citation format) unless there is no clear choice nor a nation-based choice to settle on. In the referenced article, it would be appropriate to force the article back to the standard American date format when subsequent edits have strayed from that. Imzadi 1979 → 23:18, 20 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Newspaper sources are preferred over press releases. A press release is a first-party primary source because it is published by the DOT (first-party) and it is on the level closest to the information (primary). Even if a newspaper regurgitates a press release, that still makes it a third-party secondary source, which is preferred. That's the long form of what I put in my edit summary. For better or worse, we respect this preference in our sourcing, especially on Featured Articles. Imzadi 1979 → 00:53, 27 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

		The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
		For your proactive approach in providing much appreciated advice and guidance to a new user and in substantially improving the layout and content of the induction package. Thank you very much. GnGn (talk) 07:56, 9 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Frankly I'm a bit too weary at the moment to figure out what's happening between you and that other editor. However, it appears that this edit[1] involves moving someone else's post to a different location. If that's correct, maybe it's best not to do it since there seems to be an objection. Thanks, Coretheapple (talk) 23:37, 14 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I opened up a section on their Talk page to try and resolve this issue. Instead of shooting from the hip with unsubstantiated or distorted claims, the editor should have asked me what I was trying to do. This issue has been blown completely out of proportion. Hopefully, we can move on if calmer heads prevail. Hopefully, this editor will also remove their RfC, which seemed to surprise you and me since it contradicted Wikipedia:Requests for comment based on their separate posted issue about an article statement not being supported by a citation since it had never been addressed in the articles Talk page as you and I pointed out.

Thanks for the feedback. Wondering55 (talk) 01:00, 15 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I think that's the way to go. Coretheapple (talk) 14:15, 15 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Wondering55. You have new messages at Technical 13's talk page.
Message added 14:33, 19 March 2014 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.[reply]

— {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(t • e • c)} 14:33, 19 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]