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There must be other Bronze-Age settlements besides Anglezarke in the Pennines - e.g. Mam Tor, off the top of my head. And the section should perhaps be called "Early inhabitants" or expanded into a more general History section. Dave.Dunford 11:27, 4 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I took the liberty of somewhat re-writing the "Early Inhabitants" section. Yes, there are lots of Bronze Age settlements - we have one on our doorstep just north of Mallerstang - but I didn't name any, and haven't given any references John Hamilton 01:09, 15 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Good work John. Dave.Dunford 18:38, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have rearranged some of the headings without deleting previous contributions. I shall continue to add text as and when I can find references to the area. I thought maybe a table of settlements with population stats would give an idea of the population as I can't find any figures for the whole region. Any offers?--Harkey Lodger (talk) 17:42, 25 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In the intro section I'd propose that the suggestion that the Pennines extend into Scotland be removed and that the reference to the Cumbrian Fells be modified as this may be misleading. The Cumbrian Fells rightly refers to the hills of the former county of Cumberland, only some of which extend into the Pennine range - most would be considered a part of the Lake District. I think also the Rossendale Fells and the West Pennine Moors might be considered one and the same by some. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Geopersona (talk • contribs) 20:30, 24 January 2009 (UTC) 86.167.38.31 (talk) 20:42, 24 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Browsing this article today I notice that the JCA links are dead. Further research points to http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/ourwork/landscape/englands/character/areas/default.aspx which notes that they are now "National Character Areas", e.g. http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/ourwork/landscape/englands/character/areas/dark_peak.aspx for the Dark Peak (my local one). It wouldn't be difficult to make these amendments -- if no one else does soon I might have a go. Simon Grant (talk) 07:25, 28 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for pointing this out. I noted that the PDF files on the Natural England website are still labelled Jca(X) and have not been revised so it's just a change of name to "National Character Areas" and a URL move. Please revise/update as you see fit.--Harkey (talk) 10:05, 28 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've done this now, and introduced an extra NCA that looked implausible to leave out: surely Pendle Hill is part of the Pennines? If it isn't, then surely the rest of the Forest of Bowland isn't either? The correspondence between the actual NCAs and the map given is far from exact, and I had to put the two Bowland NCAs together -- I would suggest a review to include other NCAs that are reasonably considered to be part of the Pennines, according to the map at the top of the article, and then seeing if we can include a reworking of the Natural England map. Just how are we defining what area is "really" the Pennines? Simon Grant (talk) 19:28, 10 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've added a few pieces on the areas history, flora, fauna, climate and landscape. I don't know how to resize images though, so if someone could resize the images under the national parks section to a more suitable size then that'd be a great help. Cheers. Kentynet (talk) 17:10, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have thumbed the images for now but could do with some captions adding to help understanding and possible rearranging to improve layout. Keith D (talk) 18:53, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

OK, thanks for the help with that. Yesterday I added a few pieces to the article and today I've worked a bit on aesthetics and imagery, I felt the images were somewhat "Central-Pennines-centric" and didn't really provide a feel for how the different areas of the Pennines look.

As we all know the Pennines are a very diverse area, so I've added a few pictures from different areas of the Pennines and from related articles to these areas, I think this article has needed fresh pictures for quite a while, but it still retains most of its original ones.

Kentynet (talk) 14:08, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

One thing I feel lacking is some map that gives the boundaries in relation to places, so you can see where it is in relation especially to places near the boundary. Keith D (talk) 16:58, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Couple of issues:

• Any suggestions as to which settlements should and shouldn't be included? It's a pretty random selection at the moment.
• And in what order should they be presented? Again, currently it's pretty random.

Should it even be in the article? Dave.Dunford (talk) 17:06, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Recent (partial) edits have treated "The Pennines" as singular ("The Pennines is..."). But many existing references within the article still use the plural ("The Pennines are...", "The Pennines were...") which, to me at least, reads much more naturally; I can see the reasoning behind the singular, but it feels pedantic and unnatural. For the sake of consistency and natural idiom, I've switched where possible back to the plural usage, or changed to uncontroversially singular constructions such as "The Pennine region is...". Comments welcome (and I may have missed some). Dave.Dunford (talk) 00:48, 16 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

At the end of this paragraph I propose changing these words: ... occupied by moors and peat mosses, ....

because that link is incorrect: it is bracken peat not sphagnum peat. So I propose replacing them with:

... occupied by a moorland of bracken, peat, heather and coarse grasses, ....

For reference see http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/domesday/dblock/GB-400000-441000/page/4 and http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/domesday/dblock/GB-400000-441000/page/5 - Marginal Upland Grazing Sutton Moor, Domesday Reloaded, BBC 1986 Kildwyke (talk) 15:02, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I implemented this change today Kildwyke (talk) 13:33, 1 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I was interested to know what formed the Pennines, but I can find no mention of it in the article. Maybe there should be a section on this? VenomousConcept (talk) 12:54, 29 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Larger cities such as Leeds and Manchester lie at the foot of the hills." This statement seems to suggest that neither of these cities is actually in the Pennines. Is this correct? The lead image, derived from a NASA satellite image, seems to show a very definite boundary line - how has this boundary been devised and how does it relate to geogrophical settlements? Presumably it's a simple matter of contours. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:27, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The line on the image is original research by the uploader, User:Harkey Lodger, I think - I don't know of any other basis for it. It seems to me that it's reasonably correct to refer to both Leeds and Manchester as "at the foot of" the hills, rather than within them. Sources either way would be useful. Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:45, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The text and image are probably well out of date by now try here for more up to date information and please feel free to amend anything at all.--Harkey _Talk 14:46, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks. Sorry to see you've just retired. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:35, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yikes! - hope it wasn't anything to do with us...?! Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:42, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

PS: The problem with the National Character Areas, so far as this article is concerned, is that they don't refer to the Pennines as a whole. So, I'd be happy to keep the current image, but make clear that it shows the general extent only, not a definitive boundary. I'll tweak the caption a little. Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:45, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

PPS: ...But, having said that, it looks to me like a good part of the Forest of Bowland - the next image down - is actually outside the white line. Do we need to rethink further? Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:49, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe we do. I was hoping that HL was at least going to tell us how that boundary had been decided. I was expecting some kind of commonly agreed definition of what constitutes "upland terrain" which might then have been applied to this section of the country. Surely there are some geographers out there who have access to manipulable UK terrain maps? Martinevans123 (talk) 16:04, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I suspect it's one of those terms, like West Country, where there is no clear definition and certainly no boundary. We had this, but it's out of date - the areas don't seem to correspond with the ones shown here. Perhaps we should just have a relief map, with the name superimposed somewhat vaguely across it - to give a general indication of its location without being specific. If so, I'm sure someone at WP:GL/MAP could draw one up quickly. Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:17, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, according to Natural England, Leeds is outside the Yorkshire Southern Pennine Fringe but is, in fact, in the Nottinghamshire, Derbyshire and Yorkshire Coalfield (downloadable pdf doc with map), as is Wakefield. I see that the Wakefield article currently has it described as being "on the eastern edge of the Pennines", although no source is provided to support that statement. Looking at the map of the YSPF it seems that, if one was travelling on the M62, the boundary between the two area is where the B6125 from Birstall to Drighlington passes beneath the motorway. But that's just the Natural England Character Areas, of course. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:59, 18 May 2013 (UTC) p.s. I have left a note at WP:GL/MAP.[reply]

I was trying to fulfil your request but I got lost while trying to figure out the Pennines extent. What about this map? Wouldn't it be enough for the article? Hellerick (talk) 08:13, 16 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think that would be an improvement, although that yellow label might get a bit lost if the image was reduced much. Let's see what other editors say. I'm still intrigued to know if there is a geographically valid boundary. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:17, 16 June 2013 (UTC) p.s. is there a single agreed hieght asl for UK "upland"?[reply]

Looks great to me, but it would be better if the words were in black. There is very little likelihood of there being any useful boundary - it's never been an administrative area, and local landscape designations cover small parts of it only. Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:04, 16 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Looks fine to me, with the same reservation about the text colour. Dave.Dunford (talk) 09:06, 16 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I was trying different colours, and yellow seemed most clear upon this background. Okay, here are the black letters. They were poorly seen upon green and pinkish background, so I had to remove "The" from the name and make the letters larger. Hellerick (talk) 09:34, 16 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]