As in this edit to 25th Legislative District (New Jersey), you have removed existing sources and replaced with different ones, some of which contain less complete information than the sources already provided. You also provided no explanation in the edit summary to explain your edits. Please use the edit summary in the future. Any explanation of your changes on this talk page or on my talk page would be helpful in understanding the logic behind your edits. Alansohn (talk) 15:52, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Please do not remove content or templates from pages on Wikipedia, as you did to Interstate 195 (New Jersey), without giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your content removal does not appear constructive and has been reverted. Please make use of the sandbox if you'd like to experiment with test edits. Thank you. Tinton5 (talk) 21:16, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have tried to change cited references for Leanna Brown since they had better, more recent, and more complete information than current cited Record article. My changes have been undone even after I indicated the reasons for these changes. I then provided a full explanation for these changes in the talk section. I have not received any response as to why these changes cannot be made in order to improve available information about Leanna Brown.

Please advise if you agree with my proposed changes. I would like to replace the cited Record article with 2 references that have better, more recent, and more complete information.

If you do not agree with the proposed changes, please explain why.Wondering55 (talk) 06:33, 1 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In looking through your edits, there seems to be a rather strong focus on deleting references sourced from The Record. In some cases, the sources are different, in some cases they're more recent, but in far too many cases the replacement sources are less complete and less reliable than the original material. Wherever possible, I have tried to retain all of the relevant sources to the best of my ability and as reasonable, including the sources you have added, and I will review some of the other removals to see if the material can be reinserted into the article. Can you explain why you have been systematically removing sources from The Record and edit warring with those who have tried to reinsert those sources? Alansohn (talk) 14:45, 1 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Alansohn, All of the replacement referenced sources are more complete, more up-to-date, and more accurate and they are also reliable.

Since you seem to disagree with this statement, please provide specific details that contradicts this statement in regards to the Chatham Borough article.

You seemed to be focused on an unsubstantiated charge of edit warring rather than looking at the bigger picture to see if my cited replacement references improve the Chatham Borough and other articles. One other minor benefit of my cited references is that they are accessible to anyone. The Record cited reference in the Chatham Borough article is accessible on a regular basis if you have a paid subscription to that source. When somebody replaces something with better, more up-to-date, more accurate, more complete information, their efforts should be welcomed and not reprimanded since it is not edit warring. Wondering55 (talk) 15:11, 1 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Alansohn, Thanks for your response to my original comments that I saw on my Talk page.

I apologize since I am a Wikipedia novice and am trying to work with anyone who has any concerns about my editing efforts. I hope that we can work together to improve Wikipedia articles and cited references.

Rather than continuing to go back and forth with responses, I would hope that you would accept that my changes are made in good faith. I believe I have responded with sufficient details and reasons that show my changes are made in good faith and they should be accepted in accordance with Wikipedia's policy about allowed changes. Thanks for your consideration. I look forward to your response about accepting my changes.Wondering55 (talk) 15:59, 1 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've gone through every one of your edits to date and every single edit to an article removed a source from The Record (Bergen County), specifically ones written by John Cichowski. Whether it was a highway-related article or one about a high school, or a legislative district or a politician, every edit removed a source by Cichowski in The Record and replaced it. Some of the sources are better or more recent, but many of the sources are from user-updated content or material from websites and publications with questionable reliability. If you feel that the sources from The Record are out-of-date or that the articles would benefit from other sources, I suggest adding to the existing references as in many cases the articles are worse off with the sources you've removed. It does seem rather strange to me that this removing sources by John Cichowski in The Record is what you'd be doing on a systematic basis, and I'm wondering why. You seem rather knowledgeable about Wikipedia for a brand new editor. Have you edited before using another ID or IP address, as it might help to gain a broader picture of your edit history. Any explanation would help understand what's going on here, which I think you might realize appears rather odd.

Alansohn, You continue to make unsubstantiated charges about me and my cited references without any supporting details, as I have requested. So far, you have not provided any supporting details to question the specifics of any information that I cited.

I would hope that we can work together without having to ask for a dispute resolution with you.

I am a brand new editor and have NEVER edited under another ID or IP address. I believe I have adequately addressed all of your concerns.

Most of my cited references are from previous sources that have been accepted without question in Wikipedia articles that were written before I even started using Wikipedia, from official sources, or other news articles, which had more accurate information, which I cross checked with other sources.

Let me remind you that Wikipedia's policy for long time users in responding to new editors is 1. Be polite, and welcoming to new users 2. Assume good faith 3. Avoid personal attacks

I'm not sure whether you are adhering to these policies in your responses to me.

I also find it rather odd you are spending so much time on doing a comprehensive investigation of all my posts to try and denigrate my efforts. You are the only person on Wikipedia that has carried on this repeated negative campaign against me in response to my posts.

I have explained myself to one other person, who had questions, since I am a relative novice and did not know that changing cited references with better, more accurate references and correcting minor details would require me to provide so much supporting details.

The Record is not a completely reliable source since it only reports what it may find out, which may or may not necessarily be the latest or most accurate information. I suggest you check out the Eye on the Record blog on the Internet that points out many mistakes and lack of reliability in The Record reporting.

The cited reference sources, which I provided in the Chatham borough article, have more up-to-date and more complete information than the original Record article. In fact, you have kept them in as cited references so you must believe they are satisfactory.

In my experience, the proper thing to do when preparing reports and finding a more complete reference that also has updated details that supersedes the details of the old cited reference is to remove the old reference and replace it with the new reference. Keeping in the old cited reference confuses people with information that has been superseded and wastes peoples time in trying to verify that old information, which is superseded by the new references.

In addition, if I had a choice of putting in a reference, which would require someone to pay money to read, vs. a reference that is free; publicly available; and superscedes the other reference, I would include the publicly available reference and NOT the other reference.

The proper thing to do with the Chatham Borough article is to keep my 2 new cited references, which are publicly accessible which you have done, and remove the old outdated reference, which is normally only available through a paid subscription.

I have provided sufficient reasons and details for this change. Let us agree to make the change and move on to better opportunities. Wondering55 (talk) 18:31, 1 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Alansohn (talk) 17:08, 1 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

By definition, newspaper's gather material from their sources, and like all newspapers, The Record makes mistakes. I subscribe to The Record and read it every day and I agree that there are errors, but I also see mistakes all too often in The New York Times and The Star-Ledger. I had never heard of Eye on the Record, and when I took a look, lo and behold, there was an extensive criticism in the current post of Road Warrior John Cichowski, noting how he "shamelessly plugs [a] limo service by name" in a recent piece and goes to describe him as "the supremely lazy Cichowski" before moving on to an extensive quotation from an email sent to the paper by a "concerned reader" criticizing Cichowski's reporting. I have no connection to The Record, other than as a subscriber, and I have no bias for or against it. Please understand how strange it seems that you appear to have some sort of issue with The Record in general and Road Warrior John Cichowski in particular, as evidenced by the fact that you have made no update to an article that did not involve removing a source that had appeared in The Record and that had been written by John Cichowski, whether in his role as the paper's Road Warrior or in general reporting. I agree that some of your edits are productive, but this lack of neutrality regarding the paper and its reporter is a matter of concern. Your contributions are more than welcome, but excessive negative focus on one newspaper and one report appears both unjustified and inappropriate. Alansohn (talk) 18:58, 1 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Alansohn, As Ronald Reagan used to say, "There you go again."

You continue to go and question my intentions and my neutrality without any substantiation.

You continue to go and ignore my requests for specific details that contradict anything that I have stated.

You continue to go and ignore good editing practice, which is not to keep adding everything that is put into an article when streamlining it with better and more accurate info is the correct practice.

If multiple articles from a source have multiple mistakes or outdated info, removing them and replacing them with better sources is NOT a lack of neutrality, but an adherence to common sense and ethics and reputable investigation.

I also subscribe to The Record so that is the source that I start with when checking information. I then compare it to other official sources and news reports to see if the information is accurate or inaccurate. That does not demonstrate any lack of neutrality.

I do not have time or interest to investigate every single item in a Wikipedia article and all of the multiple sources.

In my Wikipedia reviews and edits of articles, I have also checked out other Record articles, which correctly referenced the cited information, so I have not removed them.

In the future, I would not remove articles without a substantiated reason that I would put in the Edit Summary.

You seemed to be oddly focused on preventing me from making needed changes based on unsubstantiated reasons.

I am concerned that you will pass along your biased concerns about me to others.

Unless you rescind your unsubstantiated published concerns about me, I will ask for a dispute resolution with you. This is not what I expected when I started making changes in Wikipedia in good faith.

Why would you continue to cite Record articles in Wikipedia that have mistakes or outdated info when there are better, more accurate references? That is a question that I will raise if this matter goes to dispute resolution with you.

Let us agree to make the change to remove the cited Record article, which will be superseded by the 2 articles that you have already agreed to, and move on to better opportunities.

I would appreciate if you would also agree that based on my responses, I have made all of my changes based on good faith, common sense, and proper investigations, and have not demonstrated any bias or lack of neutrality. Thanks for your considerationWondering55 (talk) 19:59, 1 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Let's use the article for Chatham Borough, New Jersey as an example, where the issue is a source for Leanna Brown. All that's necessary is to show that she lives / lived in Chatham Borough. The source that had been in the article -- "MORRIS VOTERS REELECT 3 GOP LEGISLATORS", written by John Cichowski in The Record (Bergen County) -- states that "Brown of Chatham Borough led Democrat Drew Britcher of Parsippany-Troy Hills, 27,381 to 7,563 to win her third term.", which would seem to address the issue, over and done with. The first source you added -- "Trailblazer Leanna Brown Honored by Chatham GOP", by Cara Townsend in TheAlternativePress.com -- states that "Longtime Chatham resident Leanna Brown had many firsts in politics. She was the first woman to serve on the Borough Council, the first woman to win a seat in the New Jersey Assembly, and the first woman elected to the State Senate." which covers the point but no better than the source from The Record. The other source -- “Our Campaigns – Senate 26th Legislative District – History” at OurCampaigns.com -- is quoted as saying that "Republican Leanna Brown of Chatham Borough defeated Democrat Drew Britcher by 34,063 to 9,514 votes to win her third Senate term." The problems are that OurCampaigns.com is user updated and doesn't include the sentence shown here anywhere on that page or on the entire website. Nor does the OurCampaigns page for Leanna Brown pin her down to Chatham Borough, as it provides an address in the Chatham ZIP code. I'm unsure what was wrong with the source for Leanna Brown in Chatham Borough, New Jersey from The Record and maybe if you could explain why it should be removed there we might be able to achieve some sort of understanding. I would also appreciate any explanation of why every reference sourced by an article written by John Cichowski should be removed? Alansohn (talk) 20:30, 1 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Alansohn, Let's answer you point-by-point on the required relevant citation source(s) for Leanna Brown in the Chatham Borough article.

It is not correct that "All that's necessary is to show that she lives / lived in Chatham Borough." in the cited reference. If that were the case, you could simply put in a Whitepages.com, Zabasearch.com, or other irrelevant reference for many of the cited people.

It is primarily necessary to show HOW any listed person was/is actually a "NOTABLE" person AND also lives or lived in Chatham Borough.

In reviewing the cited Record article, the issue was NOT "over and done with" since every cited reference that I originally accessed in this article had an extensive profile over a notable portion of that person's lifetime, except for The Record cited reference for Leanna Brown that mentioned she won a third term as NJ state senator in 1991. I found the AlternativePress.com article that had an extensive lifetime profile of Leanna Brown of Chatham Borough that also included her 3 terms as senator, plus extensive info about significant accomplishments in her life before & after.

I disagree with your contention about any supposed equality between the 2 cited articles since the presented facts in The AlternativePress article clearly covers BOTH points (1. What are their notable accomplishments? 2. Do they live in Chatham Borough?) much better than the source from The Record.

Based on comparing the clearly more extensive lifetime information about Leanna Brown in the AlternativePress.com article, which is fully publicly accessible, vs. the much more limited information in the cited Record article, which only has a shortened version of the article, it was clear that the AlternativePress.com article was better as a cited reference for Leanna Brown. So I replaced The Record article with the Alternativepress.com article and with Our Campaign website with a brief explanation for why I used these sources, which have more complete and more up-to-date info than The Record article.

There is nothing wrong with “Our Campaigns – Senate 26th Legislative District – History” at OurCampaigns.com, as noted below.

1. You had a problem that the site was quoted as saying that "Republican Leanna Brown of Chatham Borough defeated Democrat Drew Britcher by 34,063 to 9,514 votes to win her third Senate term." and indicated the problems are that OurCampaigns.com is user updated and doesn't include the sentence shown here anywhere on that page or on the entire website.

The intent of my personally inserted quote for the cited reference was to summarize the actual posted facts on the Our Campaigns site, which showed 1) Leanna Brown was a Republican. 2) She defeated Democrat Drew Britcher by 34,063 to 9,514 votes. 3)It was her 3rd term as State senator. 4) She lived in Chatham Borough based on her listed Chatham street address.

The OurCampaigns page for Leanna Brown CLEARLY pinned her down to Chatham Borough, as it provides her street address, which is clearly in Chatham Borough.

Any problems with the Our Campaigns citation can be over how I presented the Our Campaigns site information in the cited reference rather than the actual relevant facts on that site, which updated what was presented in the cited Record article. I would be more than happy for you to change the way the Our Campaigns site citation is presented.

As I have explained, the reasons should be clear by now that the AlternativePress.com cited reference should replace The Record cited reference because it provided an extensively more complete profile of her notable accomplishments similar to the way other cited references, which I originally checked, did for some of the other notable people that I checked, while also indicating more details on how she lived in Chatham Borough.

I also believe the Our Campaigns site provides additional and more complete information, which is publicly accessible, than the shortened version of the Record article about each of the 3 senate elections that Leanna Brown won and exactly where she lived in Chatham Borough. This cited reference should supersede The Record article. If you want to edit how the cited reference is presented, please feel free to do so.

I want to avoid the practice of simply adding more and more info to an article without consideration to deleting outdated, incomplete info that is superseded & became superfluous.

Any other cited articles by John Cichowski that I removed in other Wikipedia articles were replaced for the very same basic valid reasons. Replacement citations had better, more complete, more accurate, more relevant, or more up-to-date info that superseded the cited article by John Cichowski.

Let us agree to make the change to remove the cited outdated Record article, which will be superseded by the 2 articles that you have already agreed to, and move on to better opportunities.

I hope that you will respect my intentions, my integrity, and my contributions. So far, everyone else has.

I would appreciate if you would also agree that based on my responses, I have made all of my changes based on good faith, common sense, and proper investigations, and have not demonstrated any bias or lack of neutrality. Thanks for your consideration.Wondering55 (talk) 02:05, 2 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Wondering55. You have new messages at Imzadi1979's talk page.
Message added 00:01, 2 March 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.[reply]

Imzadi 1979 → 00:01, 2 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Please convince the community that your issue with John Cichowski is legitimate, as I don't see any validity to your claims. Alansohn (talk) 05:17, 5 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. It's come to my attention that you have been systematically removing citations to a certain newspaper. This violates our neutral point of view policy, and is clearly against the purpose of creating an encyclopedia. As that is all that you have edited so far, it is clear that you are only here to further an agenda. That makes you a single-purpose account and is grounds for indefinite blocking.

I don't know whether certain aspects of the paper are reliable or not (and frankly, I could care less), but a wholesale removal of all citations to that source because you hate it is not acceptable, and if it continues, you will be blocked indefinitely. --Rschen7754 08:09, 5 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]