Talk:Reservation in India: Difference between revisions
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{{GA nominee|16:55, 17 November 2011 (UTC)|nominator=Kriti Khari|page=Reservation in India|subtopic=Sociology|status=|note=}} |
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{{ WAP assignment | course = Wikipedia:United States Education Program/Courses/Politics of Developing Nations (Martha Johnson) | university = Mills College | term = 2011 Q3 | project = WikiProject Politics }} |
{{ WAP assignment | course = Wikipedia:United States Education Program/Courses/Politics of Developing Nations (Martha Johnson) | university = Mills College | term = 2011 Q3 | project = WikiProject Politics }} |
Revision as of 16:59, 17 November 2011
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Outline
Fully changed the outline of the article. Hope no one minds. Take a look. Hope you like it. I also took out the Judgements and made a new article for the judgements alone and theres a link on the bottom of this article if any one is interested. Kkhari29 (talk) 00:45, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
Feedback from Govt Class
Hi,
You are off to a good start, but I think the overall structure of your article needs some serious work. It really reads like a long list of facts or dates, but if you look at what makes for a good wikipedia article, they are usually more narrative. Read over some featured articles and you will see that it is better to use paragraphs and full sentences to tell the 'story' of the topic if you will. I know you didn't do the list originally, but you could now really alter it and make it into a narrative.
Also, it seems to me that the entry needs to be more basic in some ways. Imagine you are reading for the first time about this topic. What do you need to know first -- what are reservations? What is reserved exactly? What percentages are they normally reserved? Then you need to know, who benefits from reservations. What do they benefit from? Then perhaps we'd like to know about the history. And then perhaps about the finer details -- who within a beneficiary group normally moves ahead under the reservation system? What progress have these groups made as a result of the reservation system?
This could easily lead you into the critiques of the system. Some I have heard--it tends to be the relatively well-off within each group who move ahead; it has discouraged further organizing among these groups....I'm sure there are more.
In sum, I would recommend a major restructuring with the following headers: 1) Explanation of the Reservations System, 2) Beneficiary Groups of the Reservation System, 3) History of the Reservations System, 4) Advances under the Reservations System, 5) Critiques of the Reservations System.
I think you will find that this reads well, but it may well entail cutting or moving some of your lists to the end of the article.
Prof M Johnson (talk) 04:34, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
Hello Professor Johnson, I do agree about the list and the outline. I wanted to get rid of the lists but wasn't really sure if I should. Also I didn't really know if I should take the judgements part off because we really just do not need it as a "new" reader. You know what I mean? I will work on the article once the peer review is done. Thank you, Kkhari29 (talk) 05:03, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
Work so far-New!!
Added a new section to Government Policies- Persons/Sections excluded from the Reservations. Also changed the statistics to the Population Data of SC/ST. The citation was incorrect and led to nothing! Put in new data with citations! Will fix more soon! Any comments? Suggestions? Requests on new sections? anything let me know! Working on the Arguments about Reservations which are super hard to find I don't know where the previous person got all those arguments from and also I will try to make sure all citations are correct! Kkhari29 (talk) 08:36, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
I took off the whole sections about Arguments about reservations since i couldn't find any references to that and I put in the same section under a different title with what Myron Weiner wrote in Atul Kohli's book The success of India's democracy about the arguments that persisted among the pro and anti reservationists.
People are more than welcome to add to the list if you can find appropriate citations for the arguments. I also put it in a table form so that its easier to read.
Kkhari29 (talk) 20:52, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
Organization
Hello everyone:- I am going to go ahead and organize the article systematically.It will look like the following
Definition of Reservation System
Definition of the ST/SCs
History of the practice
- Pre Independence -Post Independence
Different Criterias for reservations
(that are listed)
Government Policies
( I will take them off from the Schedule caste paragraph because it doesn't really fit there) -Persons/Sections excluded from the Reservations — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kkhari29 (talk • contribs) 08:32, 5 November 2011 (UTC) - Judgements -- Relative Cases
Reservation in Colleges via Govt. Funding
Relaxations
(anyone have a better heading suggestion?)
Arguments for and against reservations
(it will look more like a table. I don't really like that you have to scroll all the way down for the counter arguments. Plus it is too lengthy looks like personal arguments to me.)
Also I am taking off the part where it talks about Caste being the most used criteria from the beginning. It is already mentioned later on in the article so I am just going to move the stuff. ALL of the above will be cited so it becomes a good source for students who see wikipedia as their first option. IF you have any objections write on my talk page and if you need anything restored please feel free to contact me. Thank you, Kkhari29 (talk) 21:41, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
- Glad to see you're working hard on this. Looks great to me, do go ahead! Lynch7 02:25, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
More Changes
Me and my partner are starting from the bottom up. We revised the intro to the article, and we will do so for the whole page. We will see to it that the reading is comprehensible, well organized, and well written, and has verifiable sources. I trimmed the introduction because a typical wikipedia page has a definition of the topic first hand, and then goes on to explain it. I hope this is alright, but constructive criticism is always welcome!
Wendy Montero.Wendy61 (talk) 08:51, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
CHANGES MADE
Hello all, I took out one part from the introduction that talked about why reservation system exists in India because it didn't really have any citation to it but I put in a new explanation as to why it exists in India and have cited the UCG for it. Also, I did change the way i defined SC's and ST's- i put in how the Indian government defines it.
Also I took out one section about Reservation in colleges from the end of the article since i felt it was very weak. Instead I put a section in the middle of the article about how reservations are done by government funding.
Heres the exact things that I took out:
- Reservations are intended to increase the social diversity in campuses and workplaces by lowering the entry criteria for certain identifiable groups that are grossly under-represented in proportion to their numbers in the general population.
- Reservations in colleges- We know that there are many types of reservations in even academic field.Reservations in colleges and school are based on the caste as well as economic conditions or physical disability
Hope no one minds. If you do please write on my talk page and tell me how would that information be important! Thank you
Kkhari29 (talk) 01:25, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
- Good work Kriti! You picked out the peacock words and sentences well. Its UGC btw, not UCG. Good initial work, do go ahead and feel free to make broad changes to the article if necessary. We shall fine tune the minor style issues in the end. Lynch7 11:49, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
Oops! I meant UGC previously! Thank you MikeLynch for the correction and also looking over the work I did! Hope to work more with you in the future.
Kkhari29 (talk) 01:32, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
Peer Review and Feedback
Hi you guys. I enjoyed reading this article. Some constructive feedback:
- In the Universities/Colleges section: I thought the this part of the article could flow a bit better. You could add examples of what "difficulties" they might have run into and also add who exactly "they" are. I also don't quite understand what the Xth plan was.
- In the Government Policies section: Avoid using "etc." when listing things. In the first two sentences there is a bit of redundancy with "the objective" and then the "main objective". This should flow better.
- In the Scheduled Castes/Tribes section: There should a better transition between what you put in and the following sentences. I'm still not sure who is considered "untouchable". This should be elaborated upon.
- In the Pre-Independence India section: What was the "Self Respect Movement"? This was not clear to me.
- In the Post-Independence India section: Who was Ram Rajya Parishad? You could input something brief like "Ram Rajya Parishad, the _____, issued a.." Who was "Ambedkar"?
- In the Exclusions section: I deleted all the parts where you wrote "would not be included in the Reservations" because it is redundant. Professional class category: Explain why income would be taken into account and what results that would have. Cbielass (talk) 05:51, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
Sources that we will use
1. Borooah, Vani K., Amaresh Dubey, and Sriya Iyer. 2007. "The Effectiveness of Jobs Reservation: Caste, Religion and Economic Status in India." Development & Change 38.3 (2007): 423-445. Academic Search Premier. EBSCO.
2. Rashmi Jain, et al. 2008. "Migration And Caste-Based Reservations In India." Health Affairs 27, no. 1 (January 2008): 303. Academic Search Premier, EBSCOhost
3. unknown author. 2006. “Indian Reservations.” http://www.deeshaa.org/2006/05/07/indian-reservations/
4. various authors. date unknown. “Reservation in India.”http://www.ambedkar.org/News/reservationinindia.pdf
5. 2006. "We have a few reservations." Economist 379, no. 8479: 38. Academic Search Premier, EBSCOhost
Me and Kriti will use these sources to advance the refinement of this page.
Wendy Montero.Wendy61 (talk) 22:41, 6 October 2011 (UTC) Kkhari29 (talk) 07:16, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
- These sources look good. You may want to read Wikipedia's guidelines about citing sources. Templates such as Template:Cite web should be used to cite sources rather than manual descriptions; that way, the "reflist" template at the bottom of the page will sort all the citations according to where they are referenced in the article. Neelix (talk) 20:19, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
POV_Original resource
The benefitsof reservation is total POV with lines such as if 60 years of reservation can get the higher castes so upset,imagine what thousands of years of reservation can do.Furthermore,all the points(pro and against)are unreferenced.We need to cut out the POV and original research from the article.Zoravar (talk) 12:01, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
Agreed-This article was clearly written by someone with a pov. It really needs some cleaning.Millertime246 (talk) 02:27, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
I am working on the article for a class project and will make sure I address the issue you have mentioned.
Kkhari29 (talk) 04:59, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
Feedback from Government Class: Sasia
I though the article was very extensive and there's a lot of information. Before reading this article I knew nothing about the Reservation system in India. After reading it I felt as though I had a lot of information (lists of facts, dates, charts, and cases) but wasn't not really sure how to put it all together. I think the information follows a great chronological outline. However, I didn't really get why this is so important in India or more so why on a more personal level, as opposed to policy, was this issue considered important for India. I read the section Arguments offered by Pro-Reservationists and Anti-Reservationists, but it seemed to only list a few bullet points and I suppose I was looking for both short and long-term repercussions of this act. Also, under the Government Policies section there is a list of relevant cases, I was wondering if there should be links to these cases or reasons why these cases were identified as relevant. Overall, I think the article looks great and very organized with all the charts and lists. My main suggestion would be to incorporate the effects of the Reservation system from a more personal level as opposed to stating so many facts about the policy. Also, how does this affect development in India?
Asaltermack —Preceding undated comment added 22:39, 15 November 2011 (UTC).