Talk:Immaculate Reception: Difference between revisions
206.183.7.157 (talk) No edit summary |
206.183.7.157 (talk) No edit summary |
||
Line 35: | Line 35: | ||
------ |
------ |
||
From the New York Times article reporting the game ([http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/sports/year_in_sports/12.23.html], |
From the New York Times article reporting the game ([http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/sports/year_in_sports/12.23.html], dated December 23, 1972): |
||
As far as Tatum is concerned, the play was illegal and the touchdown fraudulent. He said that he and Fuqua got to the ball at the same time. "All I was trying to do was knock the ball loose," he said. "I touched the man [Fuqua], but not the ball." The Raiders, however, were not going to make a big issue out of the result. John Madden, the Oakland coach, in his post-game comments indicated from his view the football had indeed touched Tatum. |
As far as Tatum is concerned, the play was illegal and the touchdown fraudulent. He said that he and Fuqua got to the ball at the same time. "All I was trying to do was knock the ball loose," he said. "I touched the man [Fuqua], but not the ball." The Raiders, however, were not going to make a big issue out of the result. John Madden, the Oakland coach, in his post-game comments indicated from his view the football had indeed touched Tatum. |
Revision as of 16:11, 23 March 2006
Two things: first, one thing missing from this article is the source of the nickname "Immaculate Reception". I believe it was a Pittsburgh newspaper columnist, but I'm not sure. Second, I've never heard of "illegal touching" as a penalty. I believe when two or more offensive players touch a forward pass once it's left the QB's hands, the call is "illegal forward pass". - Scooter 17:16, 15 Jan 2004 (UTC)
- I found the following explanation here: "The rules of the time stated that two offensive players could not touch a pass in succession...." This suggests that the rules have changed and we can't simply refer to the current rules.
- The Steelers website has this to say:
- THE RULE
- The wording from the 1972 NFL rule book that allowed Franco Harris' "Immaculate Reception" touchdown to stand: "If a defensive player touches pass first, or simultaneously with or subsequent to its having been touched by only one eligible offensive player, then all offensive players become and remain eligible."
- It's nice to have the 1972 wording... except that it seems to me be the 1972 wording of an irrelevant provision. Eligibility isn't the point. Other sources agree with the first view I quoted, that two offensive players couldn't touch the ball in succession. If the ball touched Tatum then Fuqua and was then caught, sure, Harris is an eligible receiver but there's still no TD. I think the Steelers are blowing a little smoke here. They're not quoting the rule that the Raiders said should apply.
- Incidentally, under the current rules, Harris's catch was legal regardless of whether it was Tatum or Fuqua who deflected the ball: "Any eligible offensive player may catch a forward pass. If a pass is touched by one offensive player and touched or caught by a second eligible offensive player, pass completion is legal. Further, all offensive players become eligible once a pass is touched by an eligible receiver or any defensive player." [1]
- As for the terminology, it might have been called "illegal touching". That term is still used if, for example, an offensive lineman is the first person to touch a forward pass. Nevertheless, when I Google for a description of the play that uses this phrase (by [http://www.google.com/search?as_q=Fuqua+Tatum+Harris&num=10&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=illegal+touching&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&safe=images
searching] for Fuqua + Tatum + Harris + "illegal touching"), nothing comes up except Wikipedia and its mirrors. My guess is that "illegal forward pass" is incorrect because the pass itself is OK. Nothing illegal has yet happened as the ball sails toward Fuqua. Another possible description: A pro-Raiders website says that the play "will forever be remembered as an incomplete pass in the minds of the Raider faithful", while another says, "Incredibly for 10 minutes there was no signal. No touchdown, incompletion, nothing." If the officials had concluded that Fuqua was the last player to touch the ball before Harris caught it, perhaps they should have ruled it incomplete. I'm just going to fudge and say that Oakland would have gained possession and the win, which is clearly true whatever term would have been used back then. JamesMLane 06:34, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Who cares, it happened!
- I find it humorous that the nickname "Immaculate Reception" applies to such a messy, convoluted incident of scuffles, bounces, shoe-tops etc... anything but immaculate...
Controversy
I've never heard of the uncited comment by Tatum that the ball did not bounce off of him. I don't have a source, but I recall reading that he said, years later, that it happened so fast that he couldn't recall whether he had struck the ball or not. There is the possibility that he does in fact know, but is denying it simply to avoid controversy. This would be a good quote to hunt down.
Second, the Madden quote was from a Monday Night Football game on the 30-year anniversary of the Immaculate Reception, a game between the Steelers and Tampa Bay Buccaneers on December 23, 2002. He stated the opinion mentioned in the article when asked by Al Michaels for his thoughts on the Immaculate Reception. He may have said this at other occasions as well but this is the one time he said it that I remember.
Villapiano was definitely clipped; there is absolutely clear video evidence for this. I don't know how you're supposed to cite that though.
-- Was it Villapiano or Ted Hendricks? I remember that "half-speed" quote, and I'm almost certain Hendricks is saying it. The next part of the quote is "Now, I STILL can make the play, when the tight end -- smart player -- comes from behind and clips me ... "
Lastly, though this may be more of a personal beef . . . LoCasale's comments were said either as a joke or out of bitterness. It should be presented as such in the article so someone doesn't think that he said so as a legitimate source to the events that transpired.
By the way, does anyone feel like the Post-Gazette article about the CMU physics professor could or should be moved into the Controversy section?
- Mithunc 11:34, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
From the New York Times article reporting the game ([2], dated December 23, 1972):
As far as Tatum is concerned, the play was illegal and the touchdown fraudulent. He said that he and Fuqua got to the ball at the same time. "All I was trying to do was knock the ball loose," he said. "I touched the man [Fuqua], but not the ball." The Raiders, however, were not going to make a big issue out of the result. John Madden, the Oakland coach, in his post-game comments indicated from his view the football had indeed touched Tatum.