What evidence us there that Novus Ordo Seclorum is motto of Freemasonry. I seriously doubt this in light of the information I found and posted on the Eye of Providence discussion page. Loremaster 18:01, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

present your evidence here.

Anyone have source for this: "Medieval Christians read in Virgil's poem a prophecy of the coming of Christianity." Thx. Nobs 21:13, 14 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Take your pick [1]. It's pretty standard, and is the the basis of the Divine Comedy. -- Decumanus 21:19, 2005 May 14 (UTC)

Ok, here is the explanation coming from someone who has studies latin for three years. seclorum is in the genitive case, plural form. the genitive case is used for the possessive form of a word, therefore, novus ordo seclorum can't mean "new order for the ages" or "new secular order" because each would require a different case, i.e. not the genetive. Furthermore, the latin word seclorum does not translate to "secular", despite the resemblance. It translates to "of the centuries", of the "generations", or "of the ages". Bonus Onus July 9, 2005 02:38 (UTC)

• I'll buy that for a dollar. Good edit, BO. Fernando Rizo 9 July 2005 02:47 (UTC)

This was on the article page, but really belongs here:

Possible correction:

Quoted from the Concise Oxford English Dictionary, Eleventh Edition:

secular

ORIGIN - ME (Middle English): senses 1 and 2 from OFr. (Old French) seculer, from L. (Latin) saecularis, from saeculum 'generation', used in Christian L. to mean 'the world'; senses 3, 4, and 5 from L. (Latin) saecularis 'relating to an age or period'.

Therefore, they are indeed all related, so it is not merely an assumption that seclorum has secular in it's meaning.

But it does not mean "secular" in classical Latin. See Lewis and Short. I see this unfact has come back from answers.com, which is a mirror of Wikipedia. Wikipedia:Mirrors_and_forks/Abc#Answers.com. Septentrionalis 00:24, 13 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The article says, "By circumscribing the 6 pointed Star of David over the pyramid, 5 of the 6 apices (the 6th being the 'All-seeing eye'), point to the letters spelling M-A-S-O-N. (disputed — see talk page)". What part is being disputed, and based on what evidence? If someone doesn't answer soon, I'll remove the disputed tag. Superm401 | Talk 05:27, 5 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The fact of the pointing. A six-pointed star points near, but not at the letters; in fact, most of the points miss the letters entirely. Look at a dollar bill if you have one to hand. Also (thank you for reminding me) the order of the letters. Septentrionalis 04:38, 6 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Unless one points to a notable third-party description of this conspiracy, which asserts its notability, this stuff must be deleted. mikka (t) 02:04, 23 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, I think the existence of the theory should be mentioned, whatever its factuality; as long as it is clearly separated from the consensus parts of the article. After all, we describe the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Septentrionalis 21:47, 10 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I also see no evidence that the Tetragrammaton is 72-fold. If anything, it is fourfold. Septentrionalis 21:47, 10 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There also those who believe that the freemasons were influenced by an ancient brotherhood from the time of Galileo called the Illuminati. The eye over the pyramid is said to be the eye of illumination. References to "New World Order" for the translation of NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM also point to an Illuminati influence in the early freemasons.

The connection between Galileo and the Illuminati appears to be Dan Brown's invention in Angels and Demons, I do not recall novus ordo seclorum coming into the novel. (It would be implausible; Weishaupt knew Latin, he would not have mistranslated it.) Please supply source. Septentrionalis 16:12, 20 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This has passed unnoticed for quite a long time; though the article states [t]hese theorists assert that the word should be spelt secolorum, and the alleged first o is omitted for occult reasons, the actual term in latin is saeculus (or seculus), -i; the correct form would be seculorum. Taragüí @ 15:23, 23 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

as the article says, when discussing actual Latin, rather than conspiracy theorists: "Latin prose would normally spell the word saeculorum". Septentrionalis 20:52, 23 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In such cases, I believe it is customary to add a (sic) notice to the oddly-spelled text. Taragüí @ 10:20, 10 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]