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Inserted neutrality according to worldview: [1] --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 16:31, 31 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

university is in Israeli occupied territory, therefor the category is correct. Its not pov when its the entire worldview that its occupied. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 21:57, 31 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This article currently says that this college is located in "Golan Heights, Israel". The Golan Heights is not in Israel. I cannot believe that we need to have the same discussion in 20 different places. This college is located in an Israeli settlement in occupied territory, Wikipedia cannot assert a fringe view that this place is in Israel and further assert this fringe view as fact. nableezy - 19:30, 1 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If the local garbagemen, postmen, and policemen are paid by the Israeli government, it's in Israel.--brewcrewer (yada, yada) 19:46, 1 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Entire worldview is that its occupied land and not part of Israel. The United Nations [2] United States [3] European Union[4] United Kingdom[5] Arab League[6] --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 19:53, 1 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Brew, sorry but that is ridiculous. Not even Israel claims the Golan is in Israel. nableezy - 19:56, 1 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You're not going to change reality by editing a wikipedia article. If you dont like the fact that Israel is the governing entity in the Golan Heights, then petition the Syrian government to try to get it back. The fact is if I wake up in the morning and walk out in the street I see traffic signs in Hebrew and I have to follow Israeli traffic laws. So the reality is that I'm in Isreal. --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 19:59, 1 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

brewcrewer, this has been discussed 5 million times. You go to the Golan Heights article, and when you get consensus there that it is a part of Israel, you can ad it in this article. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 20:23, 1 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Uhh, I am not trying to change reality. The reality is that Israel is the occupying force in the Golan. That you would have to follow Israeli laws is irrelevant to where the Golan is. It is nearly undisputed that the Golan is Syrian territory occupied by Israel. The "change in reality" is when certain users insist that Greater Israel has the right to claim anything it pleases. The Golan is not in Israel, countless scholarly sources can be provided that say this incontrovertible fact. nableezy - 20:06, 1 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It has been discussed countless times, yes, but there never was a consensus to change the reality to wiki-reality. The horrible land-hungry Israel with an occupying fetish can be denounced by every single scholar and NGO, but reality is reality. Until a citizen in the Golan wakes up in the morning and has to follow laws of a country that is not Israel, the Golan is in Israel.--brewcrewer (yada, yada) 20:41, 1 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Uhh, multiple noes. We report what the sources say, and the highest quality sources are almost unanimous on this issue, the Golan is Syrian territory occupied by Israel. It is not in Israel. But as you insist on portraying a fringe sized view as fact I will take this to the NPOV noticeboard. nableezy - 20:43, 1 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You keep on repeating yourself, as if you're in some sort of trance. No offense. It's irrelevant whether the majority of nations, scholars, NGO's, Wikipedia editors, insist that Israel is not the rightful governing entity of the Golan. If the garbageman, postman, fireman are paid by the Israeli government, it's in Israel. All this debate about why, who, what, when Israel should give back the land took in a war belongs in the article - Golan Heights. But we can't go around changing the reality of each entity within the Golan because it's a "fringe view that Israel is the rightful governing entity of the Golan." Now I'm going back to play pingpong. I'll give some time for a response that pertains to the actual points that are raised. --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 20:55, 1 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No, what is irrelevant is your personal opinion on what makes a territory a part of a country. What is relevant is the countless sources that say flatly that your personal opinion is incorrect. Sources state, and there is no real dispute about this, that the Golan is Syrian territory occupied by Israel. nableezy - 20:58, 1 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

What counts is the sources, not reality. What counts is the majority of sources, not reality. Anyway, brew, why feed the confused? This reminds me of the claim that an Israeli city means 'city in Israel', Israeli village means 'village in Israel' but Israeli settlement does not mean 'settlement in Israel'. They refuse to accept that the English language is much more complex than their reasoning and that Israeli town means a town built and lived in by Israelis. Tell me, if you fly to Taiwan, are you flying to China? --Shuki (talk) 21:25, 1 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Shuki, I know you are well aware on the policies of verifiability and NPOV. It is not neutral to assert a fringe sized POV as gospel truth. And what matters on Wikipedia is the sources. The sources say that this is in Syrian territory occupied by Israel. And I am not confused, and "Israeli settlement" has a well-established meaning. Dont play these stupid little games with me. nableezy - 21:31, 1 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

okay, i'm back from the pingpong games. i won all the games, but i'm not sure how much they count. sexism aside for a second, they were all against a girl.

@Shuki: of course, there are sources. but there are sources for any terminology preferred by pov-warriors. we can have sources smackdown here, but the time-consuming google searches won't get us anywhere. my point assumes arguendo that zero sources exist that can be used in favor of the term "Golan Height, Israel. because there is nothing to debate where the actual governing entity is clear.

@nableezy: my claim that what makes "a territory part of a country" is the actual governing entity, not the ideal governing entity, is no less OR then your claim that the actual governing entity is irrelevant. Again, sources can chant from today to tomorrow that the Golan Heights is Syrian occupied territory, but its irrelevant for the Wikipedia articles on entities withing the Golan Heights. There is no reason to shove politics in the face of one reading about a small college in the Golan Heights unless we're here to create a wikireality instead of an enyclopedia. --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 23:01, 1 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Brew, by definition, occupied territory is both outside of the occupying country and governed by the occupying country. To say that the governing entity determines what country a territory is in makes the word "occupied" completely meaningless. To put it bluntly, that argument is plainly incorrect. nableezy - 23:04, 1 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No. There's plenty of place on Wikpedia for the "occupied" issue to have relevance. Try Golan Regional Council, International law and the Arab-Israeli conflict, UN Security Council Resolution 452, UN Security Council Resolution 465, UN Security Council Resolution 471, Israel–Syria relations, Independent Israel–Syria peace initiatives, to name a few. It's a ridiculous POV-push to remind everyone at every turn that Israel "occupies" the Golan. --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 23:24, 1 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The POV push is the one in which a fringe view is presented as a fact. You know, exactly what you are doing now. nableezy - 02:38, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Just came across this discussion. Why not just put that this college is in the "Golan Heights", neutrally, and without labeling the Golan Heights as either being in Israel, nor labeling it as being "Israeli-occupied"? If editors want to know more about the Golan Heights, they can go read that article. ← George ^talk 00:14, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Should the lead not mention that it is an Israeli college in the Golan Heights and not just supported and recognized (whatever that might mean)? --Shuki (talk) 00:33, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean by "Israeli college" is the real question. Are only students who are Israeli citizens allowed to attend? If that's the case I would mention that. And what does being "supported" and "recognized" by Israel mean, anyways? Does "supported" mean that Israel funds the college (as in a public college), and "recognized" mean that it's accredited by the Council for Higher Education in Israel? If that is the case, say that. But I don't think trying define the Golan Heights makes sense here, when we have an entire article dedicated to that highly controversial subject. ← George ^talk 00:45, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry Shuki. You can't remove this information; certainly not with the reasoning that you provide. Please do not remove the information again without discussing it first. The English Department is an integral part of the institution and has every right to be featured. The citation that you are asking are for general departmental policy and pedagogical goals. That makes no sense. If at all, the citation is found in the information about the department that you removed (what event the department has put on; which courses it teache; etc) - and in the the links to the department's offcial web page and facebook page. I left out some of the information that might appear like advertising and restored the links. Again, please don't touch this section again without prior discussion. 2knowledgeable (talk) 05:26, 20 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]