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Golf B‑class Top‑importance

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Sports B‑class

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Sports, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of sport-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SportsWikipedia:WikiProject SportsTemplate:WikiProject Sportssports B This article has been rated as B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. To-do list: Here are some tasks awaiting attention: Article requests : Requested articles (Sports) Requested articles (Association football) Requested articles (Association football women) Requested articles (Motor sports) Requested articles (Estonian sportspeople) Assess : newly added and existing articles, maybe nominate some good B-class articles for GA; independently assess some as A-class, regardless of GA status. Cleanup : * Sport governing body (this should-be-major article is in a shameful state) * Field hockey (History section needs sources and accurate information - very vague at the moment.) * Standardize Category:American college sports infobox templates to use same font size and spacing. * Sport in the United Kingdom - the Popularity section is incorrect and unsourced. Reliable data is required. * Fix project template and/or "to do list" Current version causes tables of content to be hidden unless/until reader chooses "show." Expand : Professional sports (crucial article explaining the salaried undertaking of sports) * Sport industry (currently a sub-stub) Photo : for pages listed in Category:Wikipedia requested images of sports and games and sub-categories. Stubs : work on articles in Category:Sports stubs Update : List of world sports championships Other : Translate the page of sport in each country from corresponding article in other language Wikipedia to English Wikipedia which was marked in red. Categorize: Gather all (major/olympic) sports to be part of this project RfCs: answer requests for comment

Scotland B‑class High‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Scotland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Scotland and Scotland-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ScotlandWikipedia:WikiProject ScotlandTemplate:WikiProject ScotlandScotland B This article has been rated as B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

The sentence "According to the most widely accepted account, however, the modern game originated in Scotland around the 12th century, with shepherds knocking stones into rabbit holes on the current site of the Royal and Ancient Golf Club of St. Andrews.[5]" is slightly misleading. There should either be a reference to a twelfth century source (which almost certainly does not exist) or a following sentence that says "however, the earliest contemporary evidence dates from....(?18th century)". To jump back to the twelfth century is quite a leap of faith... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kinigi (talk • contribs) 17:10, 22 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

PGA claims par 3 through 5. I found record of a par 6 in New York, but no record of a par 7. Does such a beast actually exist? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.45.5.191 (talk) 04:00, 1 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. The Satsuki golf course in Sano, Japan, has the longest hole in the world -- a 964-yard, par-7.

Username 1 (talk) 16:37, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a page in wikipedia for recent events in golf? Ergito (talk) 22:36, 6 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

try Portal:Current events/Sports or n:Category:Golf

Username 1 (talk) 18:24, 7 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There should be a section talking about blowing air horns at golf courses. 67.182.185.148 (talk) 02:12, 10 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No, there shouldn't. _wjemather^bigissue 09:49, 10 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've just noticed that some of the paragraphs in the Origins section has been liften from the Encyclopedia Brittanica word-for-word ( http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/238012/golf/222216/History#ref=ref403299 )- this is copyright violation. I'm not in a position to re-write it myself at the moment - can anyone else? WhaleyTim (talk) 14:08, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The old golf GA review can be found at:Talk:Golf/GA1.username 1 (talk) 14:16, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Alan Shepard played golf on the moon on Apollo 14 with a 6 iron.--LandonJaeger (talk) 16:54, 20 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There seems to be some debate as to which club is actually the oldest golf club in the World and when golf was first played on them. I had always thought that St Andrews golf links is the oldest in the World and that is confirmed in the Golf Monthly book by Beacon Books The Best Links of Britain and Ireland. It states that the oldest club in the World is at St Andrews "The reason is simple enough. St Andrews is the mother of all Golf Courses It is the oldest links in the World - golf was being played there long before Christopher Columbus discovered America" The book also goes on to say that the 3rd oldest club is Dornoch, 5th is Montrose, 6th is Royal Aberdeen and 7th is Crail. Looking on the internet I came across a web reference from Scottish Golf History who list the age of golf sites as follows Perth 1512, Carnoustie 1527, Montrose 1562, Musselburgh 1567, St Andrews 1574, Dornoch 1619 and Leith 1619. The web entry for Museelburgh golf club extends the debate further is it claims to be the oldest golf club in the world with golf being played there 10 years before St Andres. What appears to be missing from the Golf Monthly entry in the Best Links of Britain and Ireland is the entry of which are the 2nd and 4th oldest golf clubs in the World. - WillardWhite

Records are sketchy at best from the early days of golf, so it depends on how what evidence is considered reliable an acceptable. Musselburgh is generally recognised as the oldest links,[1]. As for golf clubs (institutions), variations in the definition of what constitutes a club allow many clubs lay claim to the title as the worlds oldest. _wjemather^bigissue 15:03, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Just to clarify the above comment, it is important to distinguish between a golf course (or links) and a golf club. The two were (and still are in many cases in Scotland) distinct. A golf course is an area of land where golf is played. A golf club is an organisation that arranges competitions for its members. For example, the links at St Andrews are owned by a public body, the Links Trust, in sucession to the Town Council that was abolished in the early 70's. The Links are effectively municipal, public golf courses. There are a number of seperate golf clubs, some with their own clubhouses, that play competitions on the links, including but not only the Royal & Ancient. Similar arrangements can be found in other parts of Scotland.WhaleyTim (talk) 08:56, 12 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This does not just concern Scotland. Around the world there are municipal/public courses with private clubs and societies attached to them. _wjemather^bigissue 09:39, 12 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

And, of course the other way round. Societies not attached to individual golf courses. WhaleyTim (talk) 09:45, 12 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Further, the existence of golf courses is mentioned in historical records before the existence of golf clubs. By their nature of being private, and perhaps informal and transient organisations there may have been many early clubs for which there is just no historical record. WhaleyTim (talk) 09:03, 13 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Just to point out (don't think it's mentioned anywhere else) that golf has the same etymology as club, a word with which it is so closely associated (Old High German kolb). The only other example of this I can think of is beef cow (from Indo-European variants bwous and ghwous). Nuttyskin (talk) 14:11, 3 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Most of the editing in this article is either vandalism or deletion of vandalism. It seems to me that semi-protection of this page to allow only registered users to edit would serve this article well. My fellow editors, please weigh in with your thoughts, and/or suggestions. Eaglebreath (talk) 22:04, 16 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I tried to get indefinite semi-protection based on suggestions by good article nominee reviewer User:Mobile Snail but it was not given because "there wasn't enough recent vandalism" to get it. If we could get it next time that would be great.username 1 (talk) 14:08, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

We just got one month semi-protection.username 1 (talk) 23:11, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Great news, good job.Eaglebreath (talk) 22:49, 19 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I just undid some vandalism to the page. It was only a line of code with words on it with some other useless info. Rockingamer2 (talk) 23:45, 24 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

First things first. I notice that the article classes golf as a sport rather than as a game. It is undoubtedly true that most practitioners of golf feel very strongly that golf should be classed as a sport rather than as a game, particularly because this classification seems to positively affect the way they like to view themselves in relation to practitioners of (other??) sports, but also because they feel its status and intrinsic worth as a pursuit would be somehow diminished if it were classed as a game instead.

However, assuming golf is not classed as a sport simply on the basis that its status or that of its practitioners might for some unwarranted reason be lowered if classed as a game instead, I am not sure on what basis it is classed as a sport in the first place. Most people would consider golf to be closer to, for example, darts, snooker or bowling (which most people would class as games) than to, for example, lacrosse, hockey or table-tennis(which most people would class as sports).

Ideally, of course, golf should be classed correctly, for the sake of accuracy, as a game, but given the fact that practitioners of golf are over-sensitive over its classification, I suggest that, at least, a paragraph be included in the article mentioning the aforementioned controversy relating to its classification.

First things first. Please supply a good reliable cite that discusses this "controversy". Otherwise we have no evidence it exists. Please also provide some cites that back up your definitions and examples of what defines a "sport" distinct from a "game" and what "most people" think. You'll also need to show an authoritative source that says the accurate and correct classification for golf is a game.

Once that is all established we can consider how it can be reflected in the article. Thanks. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 17:44, 9 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Here you go: http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/505429.html - link for the controversy and link showing that most people considered golf to be a game, not a sport.

"Using a popular comparison site* of google results, the term "game of golf" had 315,000 results vs. "sport of golf" at 18,900 results. Doing a search on "golf is a game" had more results (20,700) compared to "golf is a sport" at (5,570) results. [ http://googlefight.com/ ] [* not to be considered definitive since many things can contribute to results generated and the results number presented with a search is a "general sum"]

And finally as a more definitive means of determining the most common use, I did a search on google news for relevant, current news, the terms, golf and game returned [ http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=&q=golf+game ] 13,200 results compared to 3,610 for golf [ http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=&q=golf+sport ] and sport. More defining is the fact that when searching for golf and sport, the search terms were not associated in the text, whereas the search for golf and game, returned a large amount of results where golf was actually referred to as a game.

I think definitively this shows that the general public would consider golf a game as well. Generally speaking."

Here's another link stating there is no consensus whether it is a sport or a game and that the answer is likely to depend on whether one is objective or not: http://www.popsci.com/entertainment-amp-gaming/article/2009-01/golf-sport

Finally, here is a link to hundreds of links of debates whether golf is a game or a sport: http://www.google.co.uk/search?rlz=1C1GPEA_enGB315GB315&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=is+golf+a+game+or+a+sport%3F

As to the definitions, here are some:

Sport: an active diversion requiring physical exertion and competition.

Game: a contest with rules to determine a winner.

Now, take biathlon, the winter sport that combines cross-country skiing and rifle shooting. It is not a game; it is a sport. If biathlon involved rifle shooting and a leisurely ski to the next range, it would be a game. Similarly, if golf involved a race against time, it would be a sport.

Here is what, for example, golf would have to be like to be a sport, rather than a game:

...Each competitor is timed as he or she makes their way around the course. Every time they go one over par on a hole, five minutes is added to their time. The competitor who has finished the course fastest wins.

Alternatively: ...Every time a competitor goes one over par on a hole, they have to do a penalty lap dragging their golf-buggy behind them. If they go one under par on a hole, they do not get penalised if they go one over par on another hole. The competitor who finishes the course first wins.

In both of these examples, physical exertion would play a critical role, unlike it does at present in golf. Therefore, golf is currently not a sport. It is a game.

Now, could you please show some objectivity and act in good faith? Thank you.

You could do the exactly same google analysis with football (any variety) and produce entirely similar bogus results. Golf is internationally recognised as a sport. We do not need to discuss this any further. _wjemather^bigissue 19:27, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No, you couldn't do the same analysis with football. For football to be a game, rather than a sport, it would have to exclusively involve, for example, taking kicks at an unguarded goal from a stationary position, with no time pressure. Sounds a bit like golf, doesn't it?

Here is the results page for the question: "is football a sport or a game?"

http://www.google.co.uk/search?rlz=1C1GPEA_enGB315GB315&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=is+football+a+sport+or+a+game%3F

Compare it to the results page for the question: "is golf a sport or a game?"

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&rlz=1C1GPEA_enGB315GB315&q=is+golf+a+sport+or+a+game%3F&btnG=Search&meta=

There is no controversy whatsoever whether football is a sport or a game. There is however a huge controversy when it comes to golf. Just because you don't like the look of the big white elephant in the room doesn't mean he's not there. Please read the Wiki editorial standards - you have to be objective and neutral, not biased and subjective!

You are right, we do not need to discuss this further. A section should be included in the main article noting the controversy as to its status. Ideally, of course, for the sake of accuracy, the status of golf should be changed in the article to that of a game.

There is no need for a section on a non-controversy which is perennially brought up by people who hate golf. I recommend you further investigate what constitutes a sport, and check out the archives of this talk page, before commenting further. _wjemather^bigissue 20:03, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

All the above googling is original research. Please read this link and it will explain. Original research is not permissible on Wikipedia. Also a link to a forum post is not a reliable source and may not be used to cite anything on Wikipedia. I refer you to my above answer; please produce cites from reliable sources that discuss the "controversy" regarding over whether golf is a game or a sport. That does not mean googling result counts and constructing evidence or a case of a controversy yourself. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 21:23, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Anyone interested in re-hashing this tired, old topic should check out the archives, and everyone using this discussion page should identify themselves by signing their posts.Eaglebreath (talk) 22:35, 19 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That's a serious overswing on the first picture! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.168.239.124 (talk) 03:53, 23 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I hear "slice" referred to by golfers. What is it? It's nowhere mentioned in the article. Shouldn't it be? 98.71.219.134 (talk) 03:42, 26 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Slicing on the golf course is frustrating, embarrassing, and typically uncontrollable. You stand there helplessly as you watch your ball make its way toward to rough and you know that you will be lucky to find it again.

Slicing the golf ball is the most common golfing ailment there is, and plenty of people who have wandered the golf course before you feel your pain. Slicing occurs when the body is improperly aligned with itself and the golf ball. Because both factors have to be fixed in order to improve the slice, it can be a very frustrating time in a golfer’s life. GolfBallPutter (talk) 22:57, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• See Glossary of golf for definition of 'Slice' and many other golfing terms.WhaleyTim (talk) 09:39, 29 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]