Christian music List‑class Mid‑importance

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What about bands like Blindside, boysetsfire or Thrice? Don't they have a certain christian influence? /arnewpunkt

The net is full of crappy listings, which try to mention every "Christian" band who has a shitty live tape or a picture on the internet. If we want such a list to wikipedia, there must be clear principles. Classifying by letter does not make much sense to me, as the name doesn't usually tell much about the band. I suggest the bands would be classified either by subgenre or region (country). Only major bands should be accepted, ie. bands that have several official (full-length) releases, or bands that are otherwise remarkable.

If the bands are to be classified regionally, the subgenre should be mentioned after the name, or if classified by subgenre, then vice versa. --theologist

Where's Dream Theater, P.O.D. ? [Tempus]

Dream Theater is not a Christian band, however I will add P.O.D. - AugustWinterman

There has today been a lot of new articles created that have been linked from this page. They have all been deleted because they were either copyvios, or did not express notability. Just a friendly note, before anyone else wastes their time creating articles only for them to be deleted 20 minutes later. The JPS ^{talk to me} 20:17, 30 April 2006 (UTC) Dream Theater isn't christian indeed... However, John Petrucci, the guitar player from Dream Theater is Christian, but that doesn't make the band christian...[reply]

I believe many of these bands need citations. I have been a follower of the CM scene since I was 7 years old (20 years later...) and haven't heard of many of these bands. This list should be reserved to bands that are significant in some manner, not just an everyday garage band. --One Redeemer 19:47, 3 October 2006 (UTC)Iamvery

Hold on. I like Disturbed, but their lead singer, David Draiman, is Jewish. His grandfather is a holocaust survivor. Based upon this, how is Disturbed considered Christian Metal? Can someone explain? I'm answering this. In David's biography, it said that he rebeled against his parents' religion. So, no one can TRULY know what he is without asking him themselves, and no, Disturbed is not a Christian band, they are secular.

I've added quiet a few black metal bands... most of them you probably have never heard of... before you delete them, go look them up, I spent hours researching them, they're all safe =] Roozbenjrox 13:14, 18 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Also, quite a few of the bands I added are from Europe, Mexico, etc. So the lyrics are in Spanish/Ukraine etc. not English, does anyone think we should have non-English bands? Roozbenjrox 13:21, 18 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There is no such thing as Christian 'black metal'. Even if 'Christian metal' is not an oxymoron, Christian 'black metal' certainly is. Especially if they are 'safe'. Add them, by all means, if they are notable, but do not call them 'black metal'. The Crying Orc 15:39, 18 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Then what do we call them? Unblack Metal, White Metal? Sounds stupid to me, it's just a name. They have almost every element of black metal, except the lyrics, so why call it something else? And how does it not exist... How many black metal bands that label themselves as Christian call themselves "White metal" or whatever suits you? Roozbenjrox 12:28, 19 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I removed them, as none of them had articles. --Inhumer 06:45, 20 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You can't have a black metal band with pro-Christian lyrics anymore than you can have a realist painting with unicorns in it. It's physically impossible. Ours18 17:26, 20 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Says who Ours18? you? Are you the god of metal and only what you say can be metal is metal? All hail Ours18 "THE METAL GOD" - ETAC

He's wrong that Black Metal can't be Cristian. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unblack_metal You can't argue that. --Trusader 03:41, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Be aware: You provided a link to a page that calls "Christian Black Metal" "UNBLACK Metal" If this is the case, then there is no such thing as "Christian Black Metal" only its variant, "Unblack Metal." It may sound cheesy, but you can't have it both ways. Jlricherson 17:40, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Unblack metal is another name for christian black metal. – Jerry^teps 05:39, 21 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I added some (band) notations to the groups whose links were to the wrong pages. I do not know whether any of these bands would have pages, maybe someone should check this out. While said person is checking it out, please to check also if they are really Christian bands. While I was at it, I removed the link to System of a Down, but not before making sure they weren't really a Christian band. A quick check of the lyrical content reassures me of this. Jlricherson 04:48, 21 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I added SOAD and trust me they are Christian, look at the lyrics to Question! and Soldier Side. Also I added Flaw and someone deleted them, look at the lyrics to Whole. --Trusader 22:10, 24 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

One or two songs don't make a band christian --Inhumer 02:14, 25 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

So if there was a small band with only 4 songs and all contained the exact lyrics "I am Christian!" They wouldn't be christian because it is only a few songs. --Trusader 04:06, 28 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Those were just a few. Chop Suey references the death of Jesus for example. Please, trust me they are christian --Trusader 19:45, 26 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No, They're not. --Inhumer 00:17, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Also, SOAD and Flaw are a Hard Rock bands, so they don't belong on the lists anyway--Inhumer 00:24, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia describes them as metal groups for one thing. And second give me one reason they are not christian. Just to be a nice guy I will stop adding them till we hashed this out. Now actually prove your point instead of repeatedly saying things without backing them up. --Trusader 03:58, 28 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As I have already told you, One or two songs with references to something of christian nature don't make a band christian. --Inhumer 18:09, 28 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Refer to his answer to that question moron. --66.208.76.129 19:39, 28 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

WP:PA, Also, you could of just logged in and said that --Inhumer 00:23, 29 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't. --Trusader 01:46, 29 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

And besides that was kind-of a personal attack, saying I posted that. That isn't even my ip.--Trusader 03:08, 29 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I apologize then. --Inhumer 02:32, 29 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Accepted. --Trusader 03:03, 29 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, if wikipedia describes them as metal it's because wikipedia doesn't properly classify bands for almost any genre. They aren't listed on the Encyclopaedia Metallum, they have been described as hard rock with slight metallic influences in numerous magazines, and I've not met a single metal fan who considers them metal. So there you have it. Not metal. And even if you go by the false definition provided by Uncle Wiki, they still aren't Christian by a long shot. "References the death of Christ?" Thousands of blatantly anti-Christian metal bands have done that. Ours18 04:46, 28 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

in an interview, Daron Malakian is quoted to have said: "The song is about how when people die, they will be regarded differently depending on the way they pass. Like, if I were to die from a drug overdose, everyone would say I deserved it because I abused drugs, hence the line 'Angels deserve to die'. -From the wikipedia page for Chop Suey! --Inhumer 00:31, 29 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, fine that one line. But "father in your hands I commend my spirit father in your hands hy have you forsaken me, In your eyes forsaken me, In your thoughts forsaken me In your heart forsaken me oh" Thats a reference to God (Father). --Trusader 01:46, 29 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

But that's all it is, merely a reference. It doesn't support Christian moral teachings at all. If anything, it's a mockery of Jesus's last hours upon Earth, using it as a comparison for any other ordinary death---nothing special, in other words. The idea that Jesus' death wasn't special is a direct contrast with everything I was ever taught about Christianity at school---and I went to Catholic schools for 14 years. Ours18 02:24, 29 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I was in Sunday school myself for about 10 years (Lutheran). I don't know if thats what SOAD meant but I see your point. Please refer downward to the other part.

I just read the lyrics to Question! and Soldier Side. Soldier Sidemay contain the word "God", but is obviously about war. Question! seems to about dreaming. --Inhumer 00:49, 29 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It actually in one line they say "Wondering when JESUS comes is he gonna be saved" of course it's about war that isn't the point. Just like arguing weather or not they are metal isn't the point, that should be done some place else. Question is about life after death. --Trusader 01:47, 29 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, that IS the point. A simple mention of something Christian does not make a band Christian. That line about the return of Jesus expresses doubt of the second coming and a somewhat bitter sarcasm of Christian beliefs. Furthermore, Jesus IS saved so they are indicating there is something wrong with him. Once again, not Christian. Ours18 02:24, 29 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That wasn't my point which was the point in the first place. But nevermind I can't find any good facts to prove they are of any religion in particular so of now it's just best to leave them out. Oh, just as a side note he said When jesus comes, thats expresses no doubt as to his coming, just weather or not he can make it into heaven, which every Christian has probably felt at one point in their life. --Trusader 03:01, 29 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Jesus isn't the one wondering if he's going to be saved, the soldier is. --Trusader 01:01, 5 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, I know a good test: read the lyrics to "F*** the System." Wow, they have to be NOT Christian. Jlricherson 17:40, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, they are not Christian nor metal. I think they are more muslim then anything. Iamvery 20:30, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't think they're Muslim either. --Inhumer 20:40, 29 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This argument is settled already. --Trusader 23:40, 29 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A debate I've gotten into many times. Is it totally accurate to define a type of music as Christian? And if so, why aren't we defining other bands based on their religious beliefs? Why isn't their an "atheist metal" section at the local record shop? In some ways, I think defining a music with a Christian message as "Christian" hinders sales for bands that are just as capable if not better than their counterparts.

Technically, when it all comes down to it, music is music. It can be used in many ways, some use it to glorify God, some to glorify evil. Iamvery 20:36, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

When I call a band a Christian band I'm describes the people in the band not the style music. Thats why Christian Metal is still genrelized in the same subgenres as secular metal. The Christian tag is just to let people know what they are about and for fans of metal who are Christians to find bands that share snd express similar beliefs as they do. - E Tac

Would it be possible to list or organize these bands also within their subgenres to make this a more informative list or not? - E Tac

Cristian Metal is a subgenere already. --Trusader 03:39, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Not Really, genrelizing it only as Christian and nothing else does nothing to describe the sound of the music itself, only the people playing it and the lyrics to it. So categorizing the bands in this list also by the style of metal they play seems like a reasonable idea to me. If bands were only genrelized by their lyrical content imagine what it would be like walking into a record store. --E tac 11:16, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I see your point now. I would agree. --Trusader 00:44, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I was already familiar with the article but I went through my iTunes library and re-discovered H.I.M.'s song "The Face Of God"... I was just wondering if they have any more references to religion in any ways, and if they might be considered as Christian metal... Just wonderin'! ^^ --Zouavman Le Zouave _{(Talk to me! • See my edits!)} 21:29, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No, I don't think they are a Christian band. --E tac 22:27, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Or Metal for that matter.--Inhumer 06:38, 26 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A lot of the bands on this page cannot be classified as 'metal' such as Underoath, P.O.D. and especially mewithoutyou

If you think they don't belong, feel free to remove them, but be aware that others may disagree. I personally recommend removing all bands that fail to mention "christian metal" explicitly on their pages... That'd keep genre disputes where they belong, and keep them consistent throughout the encyclopaedia. --Dane ^~nya 14:33, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The question is what about bands that mention metalcore or nu metal? should those stay or go?--E tac 21:36, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, from what I've heard, they aren't considered "metal" as such. If the page mentioned christian metal, as well as the others, I would still list it for consistency, like a few other lists. For example, I'd put Trivium in both the metalcore and thrash metal lists. --Dane ^~nya 02:44, 22 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think that the metalcore and nu metal bands should stay in the list. Although I agree that those genres are not metal, I think that this list should have Christian bands in any subgenre of metal mentioned at list of heavy metal genres. --Idont Havaname (Talk) 02:52, 22 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with that. 'Cept the related genres naturally. --Dane ^~nya 03:11, 22 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think nu-metal and metalcore are fine for the list. I was talking about the alternative, post-hardcore, and emo bands on the list Bloodredchaos 10:56, 22 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, ok. I hadn't noticed that. (Then again, I was only really reading the talk page in any depth. :-) ) There's a list of Christian rock bands for them. --Idont Havaname (Talk) 14:26, 22 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I removed a bunch of bands, some just didn't have a page, I think we should reword the sentence at the top so people refrain from adding bands who are described as hardcore and not metalcore. Also let me know if there was something I shouldn't have removed.--E tac 22:27, 22 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Has anyone heard of "Beneath the Sky" and should they be in the list? All of their lyrics are positive, with "The Reason" actually about Jesus and salvation. The only problem is that on at least two songs, they use "curse words" (the f-word (but not in a vulgar way) and 'goddamned' but even Maylene and the Sons of Disaster use that, *update: MATSOD actually say "damn it all to hell"* in a non-profane way). My question is: should bands that use profanity be completely barred from the list, or can there be a Christian band with mild profanities in their lyrics? Could there be such a liberal sect of Christianity that is okay with this? Jlricherson 17:40, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Does the band itself consider themselves to be a "Christian" band? Trouble often wrote songs with Christian lyrics but the band never considered themselves a Christian band and they aren't listed here.--E tac 02:48, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Liner notes show the lead singer as professing faith in Jesus, but they don't promote themselves as a Christian band. The only problem I see with this methodology is the fact that very few Christian Metal bands go to great lengths to distinguish themselves as Christian in the marketplace. I think this is cleverly done to garner attention from the average fan, as the message boards and discussions of these bands usually fill up with profanity. Side note: if one of the main qualifiers for a band to be labeled "Christian Metal" is Christian lyrics and themes, then they would fit...otherwise, I guess you could use this formula to remove Zao as they no longer consider themselves as much a Christian band as they consider themselves a band with two Christians in it.--Jlricherson 18:58, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

P.O.D uses occasional minor expletives such as "ass" and "damn". - -[The Spooky One] | ^{[t c r]} 21:19, 26 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No christian band ever uses curse words. P.O.D. does not curse but some words they use sound like curse words. Beneath the Sky may have some christian background but not be a christian band. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.21.223.97 (talk) 17:55, 2 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

A lot of editing has been done here and some genres keep getting changed and artists being added. It's really hard and tiresome having to look over edits of mostly anons. For example xdeathstarx (which I may add is not on the metal-archives as being death metal, let alone not even being on it), I wonder what their real genre is but they are definitely not a pure death metal act ("Christian death metal" maybe to blame?). Also, some metalcore bands are rather more hardcore and should be on the metalcore and hardcore list instead. I'm obviously not for the hardcore stuff and "Christian metal" much but using extreme metal when a band is stated as a hardcore band? Sheesh... some people need to learn their genres or have this page protected from mass editing and have some downtime. --CircafuciX 21:16, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Totally agreed. ¨Here's a suggestion: how about making strict line that Christian hardcore and metalcore bands should only be added to their own article -- List of Christian hardcore punk & metalcore bands -- with the exception of bands that have had a significant impact on the Christian metal history such as P.O.D., As I Lay Dying and Demon Hunter? I'm going to write in the intro that hardcore groups belong to their own articles, let's see if that helps. --Azure Shrieker 21:52, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Will that line be a comment or viewable? There is also alternative metal, nu metal and even metalcore which are often debated as being "true metal". It may be best for them (alternative metal, nu metal) to remain on that page instead, unless they are near acceptable here. If that doesn't help us, I think the page should be protected to work out things a bit but thats an action only an admin could provide. --CircafuciX 22:12, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You are right and like you said, it is probably best to request the page to be protected from anonymous editors if nothing else helps. While this is not as strict place as Metal-Archives, we should draw some kind of line here. Let's see what happens.--Azure Shrieker 22:26, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

To notify everyone this is what I did:

• I removed every metalcore/hardcore act that were solely those genres and nothing else. I looked at each wiki page that seemed questionable and corrected some genres.
• I removed and exchanged the hardcore/metalcore bands that were not mentioned at the list of Christian hardcore punk & metalcore bands.
• Also, I am not really sure what metalcore acts should of been kept, but someone will decide that later I guess.
• Some bands will still remain questionable as a Christian or 'metal' band.

I'm also not sure of some bands having their light of day here and some things that seem to go on here very, very often. Most core genres just don't give their way into real heavy metal and have removed the other more subtle "cores".

• xDEATHSTARx are not death metal or "extreme metal" at all... unless we're talking about the Deathstars band which if they play Christian music into their type of metal, then they would be welcome to join the ranks, but adding a band that is not even on the metal side but the hardcore side for one and naming it as a death metal/extreme metal band is another thing...
• Comeback Kid was listed as "punk metal" but was not classified as such on their wiki page.
• xDISCIPLEx A.D. was listed as "extreme metal" but was metalcore and hardcore on their wiki page.
• Point of Recognition was listed as "extreme metal" and death metal but was hardcore on their wiki page.
• Sinai Beach is not death metal.
• I saw the genres on Underoath and it's just not possible for this band to be those genres but I gave some leeway for them and added a citation for their early genres. Their genres are different from their wiki page but if they were "deathed up" back then, then they are allowed to stay here.
• Also, Skillet are questionable as passing as part of a subgenre of heavy metal with "nu metal" and saying they just have a Gothic metal influence seems just a vain attempt at adding them here as a metal band.
• Winter Solstice is a metalcore and deathcore band but I decided to leave them because of the strong death metal influence on deathcore.
• I also removed the artist East West which is a rapcore band.
• One ip anon user (67.67.69.148) is making mass edits, adding bands, capitalizing genres and also changing the band's genres from metalcore or hardcore to "extreme metal" and even death metal and "Unblack metal" when their wiki article states hardcore and then in the article it says they are influenced by metal genres (whatever they may be) and other incorrect classification on their pages.

That will sum up my edits for now. --CircafuciX (talk) 03:48, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Good work. There has been some complaints about whether old Underoath was metal at all. No idea if their early stuff was really death/black or just metalcore with high-pitched shrieking and death growls since there's only new material on their MySpace. If one adds a source to Underoath's genre, shouldn't there be added sources for most bands in this list as well as someone requested? Or is it enough that their wikipage say the bands are Christian and play metal? --Azure Shrieker (talk) 11:44, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. I knew that having all the bands referenced would come up at some time. The only reliable source I know of is AMG (about 50% reliable to the metal side of the community...) [1] and can be used to reference the Christian metal bands. If Underoath don't get referenced in some time for being dm/ubm then I will simply remove them, as they are still on the Christian hardcore and metalcore list. Also, if they did combine shrieks and growls then they might qualify as a pioneer of what some people call "blackened metalcore". I also corrected one word of yours if you don't mind. --CircafuciX (talk) 14:30, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't mind. All Music Guide tags Underoath's styles as "Post-Hardcore, Screamo, Christian Metal, Punk Metal" but the entry says their early material is metalcore.[2] If we start adding references to the bands, should it qualify if one of the Allmusic tags include "Christian metal" or should their entries also say something about it? Some of the Allmusic writers, however, seem to go wrong with their tags, for example they tag As I Lay Dying as "Heavy Metal, Grindcore, Speed Metal, Thrash" while the entry says nothing about Christian metal and that they are a "metal-hardcore crossover band." [3]. How about Rock Detector by Sharpe-Yung? [4] It tags some bands with "Christian metal" and is quite well-known but is it considered reliable? --Azure Shrieker (talk) 16:51, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

All Music Guide is considered a "reliable source" but if this wasn't an encyclopedia which is based on whatever the media/pros say, then I would never believe their labels. They don't even label death metal bands and black metal bands separately and they have a couple genres that need to be added because some are getting rather popular like melodic death/black metal and metalcore and deathcore. Although, I trust to a higher degree of what they actually say in the biography so now I think Underoath may get the boot but I'll wait for a ref awhile. And the reason why I didn't include Rock Detector was because some consider it unreliable and some do because the creator is a respected musician in the metal community and some genres they provide seem to be more dead on to the point of actually adding the more specific genres. I saw what AILD was labeled as on AMG just before but the rockdetector site [5] showed what they "truely" were. It's just not clear having two sites that say different things, it just creates more confusion. Oh and by the way, you need to click their name above their picture and go back to them to get their direct url. --CircafuciX (talk) 20:04, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ok. I'll start adding sources. This may take a while :-). --Azure Shrieker (talk) 20:20, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That was the next thing I was going to suggest :). Also it's great because some of the lists are up for deletion and soon many others and doing that will put more weight into the article. You may comment on the list of black metal bands, industrial metal musical groups and doom metal bands if you like. --CircafuciX (talk) 21:10, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Also, I think that there must be some limit because there are alternative metal and nu metal bands who are also Christian. Where should they go now? Should list of Christian hardcore punk & metalcore bands be expanded to include them or...? --CircafuciX (talk) 21:20, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Alternative metal and nu metal bands should go to the List of Christian rock bands which already includes every alt band mentioned in this list. Alternative metal and nu metal may not qualify for "pure metal" but they definitely qualify for rock. Bands that have played classic metal, thrash, death, black, power, doom, or gothic metal besides alternative will be considered individually. Industrial metal falls under alternative metal but for example Circle of Dust combines plenty of thrash on its second album, so I'd say the band qualifies for this list as well. I'll have a look at those other lists.--Azure Shrieker (talk) 15:13, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That looks right there, so I guess we're in the clear. :) --CircafuciX (talk) 22:29, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I just added the above mentioned feature to the list. You can see its wide spread usage here. I wrote about it on the AfD, and since the article made it, I thought I'd use it here. Welt^anschaunng 01:23, 15 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It does seem to make the article much harder to edit, especially for new editors. Where would you stop adding info to the expandable box? With the album list, list of band members? Kevin (talk) 03:32, 15 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe it will help if I post the proper format on the talk page. I really have no idea of the traffic here. It works like clockwork on the thrash list though. As for addition of info, it is about concensus. I (and a few others) have been regularly adding thrash albums to the list, moving very slowly, one band at a time. Recently I added a small description about the band to one entry. I hope to implement it to others, but finding citations is a bit work.

For this list though, I think the genre(s) and the christian metal album(s) is enough (for now). Band members; well, it will be a bit too much. Welt^anschaunng 15:32, 15 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ok well this is the code:

<div class="NavFrame" style="padding:0;border-style:none;"> <div class="NavFrame" style="border-style:none;padding:0;"> <div class="NavHead" style="background:#EDF1F1;text-align:left;text-style:normal"> * {{flagicon|countryname}} <font size =2>

Enter Band's link here</font></div> <div class="NavContent" style="display:none;text-align:left;">

Genre:

Enter Genres here

Albums:

Enter the albums here </div></div></div>

Welt^anschaunng 15:50, 15 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm liking this expandable list feature it really helps clean the page and eases the eyes. Nice implementation! But if there are problems with several editors (being ips) of placing the things in the incorrect places then this page should get protected, because theres always a storm of editing here and as I said before we could use a break of countless editing (by mostly anon ips and new users). This will allow us to test the new features without all these interruptions. Also, the page may well be deleted in a future AfD. −₪ÇɨгcaғucɨҲ₪ ^kaiden 03:04, 15 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The criteria for inclusion in this list needs to be overhauled. There is nothing on how a band is (or could be) "determined to be Christian" and is "considered to be heavy metal". I don't listen to this style of music so perhaps those who do could come up with something more subjective. Kevin (talk) 03:39, 15 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The expandable list feature raises some questions. If we hide the genres, people would have to click every band look what style they play, which could be rather annoying maybe. Should we leave the most dominating genre definition for each band, and include genres by album for the feature (See example 3)?

Example 1:

This is based on Weltanschaunng's suggestion. It looks good. However, if the band's style simply has changed on every album. Should we do like this:

Example 2:

Or Should we do like this:

Example 3:

Example 4:

Anyway, it is a great idea to use the feature, we just need to decide how to use it. I was thinking about going for the example 4. --Azure Shrieker (talk) 21:32, 17 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Support Example 3 - I am in favor of Example 3, Example 4 seems kind of redundant. Axcess (talk) 22:50, 18 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - I'm somewhat for #3 as well but just having one genre next to them doesn't make sense for bands that are a couple genres and have been throughout. I won't vote for it just yet. −₪ÇɨгcaғucɨҲ₪ ^kaiden 04:38, 19 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Support Example 2 - For the simple reason that the expandable list was created so that the genres could be cleaned up and put beneath the shroud. If you put genres along with the band name outside, it defeats the very purpose of the expandable list. Welt^anschaunng 07:27, 19 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Those were only examples. If someone comes up with a better idea, tell it. Can't we find a consensus here? Heh, I kind of wish this list was deleted in AfD because it is such a pain in the back to maintain. We could just use the feature for every group, delete the genres from sight, and let the Wikipedia readers click every band. "Hmm, that's an interesting band name, let's see the details. I wonder if this one plays death metal. Oh, a metalcore band, again, just like the other 10 I just checked. Oh well, I'll just spend hours clicking these until I find a decent death metal band." Ok, maybe that's a strange demonstration, but you get the point, this list is supposed to be helpful to Wikipedia readers, be functional and tidy, I suppose :-).--Azure Shrieker (talk) 21:48, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think it is about time we established a consensus on bands that are commonly added and removed from the page. To establish a consensus of a band, add the band below as a subheading of the Bands section, then cast your vote with a bold Include or Exclude, followed by your reasoning and your signature. If you wish to change your vote later on perhaps because people Have presented a good case for including the band, Strike out your previous vote Like this, and put a new vote, reason and signature beneath your old vote.

• Exclude - TFK is Christian, however they qualify as Rapcore, and does not really use any elements of metal. Axcess (talk) 16:37, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Exclude Yup, more rock. --Azure Shrieker (talk) 21:48, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• You bring up good points but as a Rapcore band, they are still techinally metal. Include. GreenRunner0 02:52, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Include - Rapcore is a cross-over genre of metal and rap. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:19, 31 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Exclude there is NO way that TFK is metal. And I say that as a fan of both metal and TFK. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.7.115.16 (talk) 23:37, 11 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Include - Rapcore. 66.177.182.13 (talk) 19:54, 13 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Offering up "Move", "Bounce", and "Rawkfist" as examples. From the lyrics of the latter: "It's time to take it up a notch, and keep it locked, for all the headbangers in the parking lot. Here we come, if you're ready or not" (emph. added.) 66.177.182.13 (talk) 00:34, 29 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Include - P.O.D. Makes blatant references to God and Jesus in their older CDs in particular, and are pretty much a text book definition of Nu Metal. Axcess (talk) 16:37, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Include Whether nu metal is "true metal" or not, these guys were in a huge position in bringing Christian metal movement back to the world map. That alone qualifies them.--Azure Shrieker (talk) 21:48, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Exclude nu metal is like the average high school teenager: its trying to be something its not. nu metal only sounds hard but does not qualify as metal. if bands "metal status" were determined by how hard they sound, then gothic metal and bands that play the genre would not qualify. Exmpl: virgin black isnt hard at all yet it still qualifies as metal because of how its played. evry genre of metal has a patern it follows. people are aparently forgeting that because i keep seeing cases where metalcore and death metal are being mixed up. nu metal does not follow an actual style of metal. its just called metal because people thought it would make it cooler.
  • Hard or not, Nu Metal is still metal. IncludeGreenRunner0 02:43, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Include - Nu metal all the way. It's harder than you can rock. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:20, 31 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Include - Nu metal. 66.177.182.13 (talk) 19:54, 13 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Include - Skillet's Alien Youth album seems to be a pretty good example of Industrial Metal, and Collide seems like a good example of Alternative Metal. Axcess (talk) 20:41, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Exclude They have some heavier riffs here and there, but they are really more industrial rock or modern rock in my opinion. --Azure Shrieker (talk) 21:48, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Include - Skillet are not modern rock. They are a symphonic, Industrial band, but for the majority of non-listeners, they're metal. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:18, 31 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• exclude. skillet is not metal —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.7.115.16 (talk) 23:56, 11 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Include - I offer up "Kill Me, Heal Me", "Rebirthing", "Whispers in the Dark", and "Live Free or Let Me Die" as examples. 66.177.182.13 (talk) 19:54, 13 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Include - Adding here because I considered adding to the list but was looking for consensus. Definitely "hard rock", possibly along the same lines as Skillet. I'm not sure why their wiki page consistently gets reverted away from "Christian Rock". 66.177.182.13 (talk) 19:50, 13 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I feel this is necessary to give us just cause for removing bands from the list, and avoid edit wars. if anyone has any objections to me putting this up, feel free. Axcess (talk) 16:37, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This is definitely necessary. The List of Christian rock bands got deleted in AfD so people are now adding every even relatively "heavy" band here. I could add a ton of hardcore and metalcore groups here that constantly get added and removed.--Azure Shrieker (talk) 21:48, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What are the bolded names for? 69.238.199.77 (talk) 04:42, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

My guess would be that those bands are the most notable out of the list. – Jerry^teps 01:59, 28 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewing this now, it appears that it's for bands that need extra information, although the bolded bands are the most notable ones as well. Jerry teps (talk) 04:48, 18 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ahhh.... I mean they're only brutal death. What am I thinking!? FireCrystal (talk) 03:12, 29 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

They were never considered a metal band and they never were. They were a rock band, and occasionally had hard rock tracks, but definitely not metal. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:15, 31 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry if I missed something, but why is Deicide in the list? They are quite obviously anti-religion (Glen Benton has an inverted crucifix on his forehead and they have songs such as "Fuck your god" and "Kill the Christian".) Also, it's not even a valid link. Is it some stupid prankster or is it there as an antonym sort of thing? Actually, I'll just edit them out myself...

On their myspace page, they have an interview with 105.7 radio. In the interview they stated that they never said that they labled themselves as christian metal and "laugh it off" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.231.87.47 (talk) 02:18, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have started a review of the listed bands. I will be removing any listings if

1. The link is not to a band page (and I can't find a relevant article), and
2. If the articles don't indicate the band has any Christian connection.

I'm not planning on touching links to bands that may not be metal enough. Should be finished over the next few days. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 00:05, 25 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• skillet is not metal. Not even close —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.7.115.16 (talk) 23:42, 11 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Again, that's your opinion. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 23:52, 11 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's not an opinion. How could you possobly think skillet is metal? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.7.115.16 (talk) 00:21, 12 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You're not making friends by attacking editors and removing content without any reason. Skillet is metal when you compare it to dance music, pure Gospel music, rap, CCM, vocal pop, or much of what passes for CCM. It's definitely not hard rock or CCM. That's why they're here. So I suggest that you offer a better reason that "they're not" and go off and delete the entry again because based on your talk page, you've been warned before about this sort of behaviour. And since you're reading and commenting here I'll ask you not to remove the TFK entry. As Rapcore, they qualify to be here. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 01:53, 12 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hey where's Beloved? They were definitely christian even though they broke up. -DCcomicslover

I will add them, but you should feel free to add them yourself.