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Archive of mostly unproductive discussion, extraordinary unsourced claims, and ungrammatical ranting.

After reading this article I was *blown away* by the large number of grammatical errors in this piece. I started to fix them, but quickly gave up at the sheer size of the task ahead of me. Irrespective of the PoV arguments, someone with more gumption than me needs to take on grammatical errors on this page before some poor, innocent reader has their head spontanously explode. I give you the following paragraph as an example:

"it is a big allegation on him.he was a staunch muslim and scholar of holy quran while it is stated in quran,that no one can be a muslim without his free will.so,how could he converted a non-muslim into a muslim.many facts also support this; The present animosity between owes its origination to the policies adopted by Aurangzeb.But for him India would have seen the only peaceful co-existence between Muslims and non-Muslims anywhere in the world."

That's pretty bad, but this next one is even worse. I don't know enough about Aurangzeb and his interaction with the Sikhs to even know how fix it:

"Things came to such a head that Guru Tegh Bahadur, the ninth guru (spiritual pontiff) of Sikhism, was executed by Aurangzeb for refusing to convert to Islam[citation needed]. Aurangzeb had demanded that all Kashmiri Brahmins convert to Islam. The Kashmiris then asked for assistance from the Sikh Guru. Guru Tegh Bahadur was proclaimed their Guru, and he advised Aurangzeb that if Tegh Bahadhur could be converted to Islam, then the Brahmins would convert to Islam. Tegh Bahadhur was then executed after his refusal to convert. This day, November 11 is still commemorated by the Sikh community."

Say what? What exactly is that trying to say? Are Bahadhur and Bahadur different people or the same person, but with 2 different ways to spell his name? Did Bahadur actually advice Aurangzeb to first try and convert, and then execute Bahadur himself? That would be... strange. If that is indeed the case then this very odd fact needs to be written on at length.

Seriously, someone who knows something about this subject needs to take a good long look at this article. It's making my head spin. Gopher65 (talk) 01:26, 20 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the first one. To me it looks like an editorial comment rather than something intended as article content. -- Rick Block (talk) 16:26, 21 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Unless the section on the Sikh rebellion is sourced to reliable sources soon, I will make some major deletions there. Relata refero (talk) 22:34, 20 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Scbose (talk) 13:30, 12 August 2008 (UTC) I agree - the relationship between the Sikhs and Mughals is far more complex than the often simplistic portrayal in this article. To mention only the most obvious points, the Sikhs had incurred the enemity of the Mughals long before Aurangzeb - it was Jehangir who first executed a Sikh guru. Moreover the relationship between Aurangzeb and the Sikhs was not simply one of enemity - Guru Teg Bahadur fought for Aurangzeb's army in Assam and so (if I am not mistaken) did Guru Govind at times. Finally, while Guru Govind's elegant Persian epistle "Zafarnama" certainly carries a devastating indictment of Aurangzeb, verses 89 to 94 also praise the old Emperor as a mighty warrior. The point I am making is that many of these conflicts involved political issues and are not directly reducible to any simplistic narrative regarding Aurangzeb's religious "fundamentalism".[reply]

I have edit parts relating to the Maratha empire geographicaly outgrowing the Mughals and some parts concerning later Mughal emperors which don't really belong on this page and are not sourced. Khokhar (talk) 05:54, 10 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Three dates shown in the article..

1. 3rd March
2. 20th February
3. and in August (infobox)

which one is correct? --sunil (talk) 13:46, 25 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

problem in the infobox has been corrected --sunil (talk) 13:48, 25 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I read online that the aging Indian emperor Aurangzeb made extensive plans to invade Tibet in early 18th century and that his death and succession crisis lent a window of opportunity to Qing China which occupied Tibet by the end of the 18th century. Still trying to get those links. Anwar (talk) 15:28, 27 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've commented out this very nicely documented section. It doesn't really seem like it belongs in this wikipedia article. I'm open to include parts of it in summary, and maybe I'll do that myself.--nemonoman (talk) 13:52, 31 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

My commenting led to a formatting problem. Here's the section:

Aurangzeb has been widely characterized as being anti-Hindu, unlike other more liberal emperors who preceded him. According to some, this negative characterization came about largely due to his disparaging views of Hindus and his attempts to induce the conversion of Hindus to Islam ^[1][2]. Some sources claim that the anti-Hindu measures of Aurangzeb were intended to help the orthodox Sunni faith gain prominence in India in an indirect manner.^[3] However, his various edicts against Hindus, such as banning the celebration of Diwali and imposition of Jizya on non-Muslims are also factors in determining his attitudes. Indian historian, Sir Jadunath Sarkar has traced the anti-Hindu policies of Aurangzeb from as early a year as 1644 AD.^[4]

Historian E. Taylor writes that his negative views on Hindus were the primary reason for his reversal of the liberal policies of the previous Mughal emperors and "resumption of the persecution of Hindus" in the Empire, and the many rebellions that arose against him in Rajasthan and among the Marathas.^[5].

Image of Aurangzeb's image is available at http://pib.nic.in/feature/feyr2003/fmay2003/f060520031.html. The site explicitly allows copying of image and so it should be fine to integrate it with this article

--Kedar (talk) 08:41, 9 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This section requires more sources to back up some claims. Khokhar (talk) 16:33, 26 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

As do most of the other sections of this increasingly unsourced ultra-POV article.--nemonoman (talk) 01:08, 27 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's due to the increasing pov in this and countless similar article that I was requesting a source to backup claims such as "Aurangzeb vowed that the Guru and his Sikhs would be allowed to leave Anandpur safely. But when the Sikhs abandoned the fort, the Mughals enagaged them in battle once again, at Chamkaur." it should be noted that most other claims of this nature are generally backed up, even in this article. I agree this is becoming an increasingly common problem but we have to deal with it how ever slow the process feelsKhokhar (talk) 21:51, 27 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Look at the ancient history of this article and dust off the ancient archives to see my contributions -- Now in tatters. It seems to me that the is a hot button article to those who have a POV, sourced or not, and of no consequence at all to the sort of editor that cares about NPOV and Reliable sources. I've made my peace with letting the article go to hell, much as Pakistan signed a "peace treaty" with the Taliban in the tribal areas. If you can't control it, make peace with it: I guess that's the lesson. If you get excited about trying to improve this article, try a few edits and gauge the real workload involved. If you're ready to shoulder some of the burden, I'll join you. --nemonoman (talk) 19:23, 28 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]