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Archives

Archive 1: 2006-03-18—2007-07-17 Archive 2: 2007-07-17—2007-08-13 Archive 3: 2007-08-16—2007-09-21 Archive 4: 2007-09-21—2007-10-23 Archive 5: 2007-10-24—2007-11-06

Per an analysis of editing patterns and Checkuser data, I have indefinitely blocked the above user as a sockpuppet of an indefinitely banned user. Other users known to have edited this article in recent months also appeared in the checkuser, although they have not edited since apparently being caught in the autoblock resulting from the block of another account. ELIMINATORJR 23:13, 5 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's almost funny how whenever there's a circumstance where someone is being disruptive or stalling progress, in the name of fairness or whatever, that the person turns out to be acting in mala fide. It's like, at some point there's just no way he could have been (in good faith) making the kinds of claims he was making. Aye. --Cheeser1 04:30, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Based on the above two sections, does anyone now object to Category:Homophobia? If so, we should now be able to have a constructive, amicable discussion and come to a resolution one way or another. If not, then we can archive this and either begin therapy or hit the bottle, depending on individual preference. Orpheus 23:29, 5 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No more objections here since you added the section on the AFA's involvement in homophobia. AniMate 00:44, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I no longer have a concern about how the article is categorized. I can't help but wonder why it couldn't get to this state any sooner. -- ☑ SamuelWantman 09:15, 8 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've archived the old discussion, in the hopes that we can all put that behind us. Now that we can focus on, you know, the article, I want to sort of generate ideas about what needs to be done to get this article in tip-top shape. I can't think of anything right now (quite tired), so I'll put the question out there: what's to do next? --Cheeser1 05:31, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I feel that I'm too narrowly focused to answer that right now. Personally, I intend not to look at or think about this article for a week or two so that I can return to editing it with a fresh mind. I did this once before, it was remarkably helpful. I would encourage others here to do a similar thing. The article will wait, and it'll be easier to be objective once this little tiff is forgotten. Orpheus 05:55, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm with Orpheus. I think I need to detox from the category war before I can actually think about editing this article again. I think that maybe focusing on editing puppies or kittens would help get me back in a productive and happy frame of mind. Clearly, work still needs to be done, though. AniMate 09:08, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Now that I've heard Orpheus (and AniMate too) say it, I've realized that I probably need a beak - not that I'm not busy enough anyway in the real world. But we can come back to this in a little while and start to move forward. --Cheeser1 15:35, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

One of the things Hal kept trying to introduce was the AFA's own views on themselves. It might be an interesting section to show how the AFA's self descriptions differ from public perceptions. Just a thought, and back to puppies. AniMate 01:05, 7 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

True, that would be interesting but it would have to be contextualized, and we can't do that (OR). I'd like to see some coverage in the media (or even better, academe) about the AFA's views of itself, but we can't do the compare-contrast on our own. --Cheeser1 02:46, 7 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like things finally slowed down around here. I have a few recommendations if you're looking for ways to improve the article. Some of the content under "Activism" looks like it should go under "Criticism", in particular the "Anti-Semitism" section, which references activist groups which accuse the AFA of such. Same thing with the "Legal Activism" section: the text there is almost entirely about criticism that the AFA received in response to an ad. I won't make any changes because I know how such things can spin out of control, fast, and I don't have the time any more to get in long discussions about what should and shouldn't go into this article. Best of luck. Citadel18080 (talk) 07:13, 26 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'd say go for it - the changes you're discussing look reasonable, and I think the intransigence we've seen in the past should hopefully stay in the past. Orpheus (talk) 12:45, 26 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm opposed to moving the 'Anti-Semitism' section from 'Activism' to 'Criticism' because the 'Anti-Semitism' section has no cricitism of the AFA anywhere in it, it just explains the AFA's anti-semitic views. However, I think the 'Legal activism' section could be under 'Activism' or 'Criticism'--I don't really care. —Christopher Mann McKay^talk 21:09, 18 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I happened to notice some of the sources used to support some of the material in the article comes from sources that themselves are known for their bias. Media Matters, for example. Anything from that source is as biased as anything from the AFA. I'll bet if the Media Matters wiki page had outrageous claims and those claims were supported by references to the AFA, they would be removed faster than lightening. So I do not understand why Media Matters is taken as an authoritative source on the AFA. If the facts really were as the article states, then main stream media sources would be available. Media Matters is not a main stream media source.

Worse, sometimse entire subheadings are supported by Media Matters and other sources of similar biases or political alignments. Not a single main stream media source could be found. I just read a section that looked interesting to me if it were true, so I checked the links, but every link in the section was to biased sources diametrically opposed to the AFA and I found it not credible. I simply could not give credence to material about the AFA that is backed up only by material from Media Matters and the like and not backed up by main stream media sources.

I thought people here should know that. I purposely did not mention specifics because the issue is the matter at hand, not me personally or my specific views. --LegitimateAndEvenCompelling (talk) 06:38, 20 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]